PRIUS stick shift coming soon .
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Why no cruise control? A lot of manual vehicles have it available. Even on my truck it was an option.
Very interesting. I would have never even considered a hybrid due to lack of manual transmission. However, I'd also never buy something without cruise.
This sounds like confused information. Toyota IS planning to release a lowered content version of the car for 2008, and it's planned, from what I've read, to start at just above $20k.
But it won't be coming with a stick shift (unless the information I read is wrong, AND Toyota has made radical changes to their HSD design.
In all of the Toyota/Lexus hybrids, the motor-generators are an integral part of the planetary CVT transmission. This design is not like a conventional design in which the designers might just bolt a different transmission box on the back of the engine and be fine. Many of the unique advantages inherent in the HSD structure are a direct result of the unique transmission design, and would not be "do-able" at all with a standard manual transmission.
Smokey, where did you get this information? Again, there is a "low content" version coming, but I think someone is confused about the transmission.
But it won't be coming with a stick shift (unless the information I read is wrong, AND Toyota has made radical changes to their HSD design.
In all of the Toyota/Lexus hybrids, the motor-generators are an integral part of the planetary CVT transmission. This design is not like a conventional design in which the designers might just bolt a different transmission box on the back of the engine and be fine. Many of the unique advantages inherent in the HSD structure are a direct result of the unique transmission design, and would not be "do-able" at all with a standard manual transmission.
Smokey, where did you get this information? Again, there is a "low content" version coming, but I think someone is confused about the transmission.
You could always pick up a Honda Insight with the 5-speed. It's probably the only hybrid I'd ever consider buying (but wouldn't anyway).
wouldn't cruise control upset the Hybrid programming & thus not deliver optimal mpg?
That has always been human vs. cruise control debate.
That has always been human vs. cruise control debate.
Manual transmission, no chance. There is not one part of the current system that would work with a manual tranny. The transmission is a single speed affair with no reverse gear. Like EkPolk stated the planetary transmission is a part of the system that can not be removed or changed. The main electric motor is connected directly to the wheels and the ring gear in the transmission. The ICE is connected to the cage that holds the planet gears and the secondary electric motor is connected to the sun gear. The secondary motor determines how fast the planet gear cage spins, which determines how fast the ICE turns running or not. Sometimes the secondary electric motor has to stop or reverse to get the ICE going at the correct speed. The computer runs all this and feeds fuel and spark to the ICE determined by loads and the speed requested by the driver. There is no way a human can step into this and succeed.
My dad's Civic Hybrid always does best with the cruise set on 65 MPH (about 50 MPG).
I'd suspect the opposite. Cruise would allow the computer to use whatever combination of power was best for fuel efficiency and would eliminate variable throttle inputs from the driver that might, for instance, add gas power where it wasn't really needed.
"Would give the PRIUS better pickup from a dead start."
How? There is no clutch, no torque converter, nothing. The system is so dependent on all the pieces that you absolutely can not change it to a manual transmission. This begs the question, why would you want one in this setup? Nothing is slipping. The main electric motor develops so much torque at stall that if not controlled could break parts in the drive line. I am of the opinion that very few understand anything at all about how the system really works. Without a lot of computing power nothing would work. A human with a manual in this system could do nothing but screw things up for no gain what so ever. This design only needs continued development, no major changes beyond improving things like the battery performance and adding something electrical to better absorb energy back as fast as it comes during braking and pass it to the battery at a slower rate that the batter likes. The more you read about the inner workings and get some driving experience the more you have to be amazed at what modern technology is capable of. Only a company the size of Toyota could have pulled this kind of development off and put it into production. The Prius is not the ultimate answer to solving the energy problem because no one solution is ready for that yet. One thing is apparent, there are a lot more cars running around with Toyota HSD technology than anything else and there is more to come. This is not someone's speculation; this is technology alive and running down the road.
How? There is no clutch, no torque converter, nothing. The system is so dependent on all the pieces that you absolutely can not change it to a manual transmission. This begs the question, why would you want one in this setup? Nothing is slipping. The main electric motor develops so much torque at stall that if not controlled could break parts in the drive line. I am of the opinion that very few understand anything at all about how the system really works. Without a lot of computing power nothing would work. A human with a manual in this system could do nothing but screw things up for no gain what so ever. This design only needs continued development, no major changes beyond improving things like the battery performance and adding something electrical to better absorb energy back as fast as it comes during braking and pass it to the battery at a slower rate that the batter likes. The more you read about the inner workings and get some driving experience the more you have to be amazed at what modern technology is capable of. Only a company the size of Toyota could have pulled this kind of development off and put it into production. The Prius is not the ultimate answer to solving the energy problem because no one solution is ready for that yet. One thing is apparent, there are a lot more cars running around with Toyota HSD technology than anything else and there is more to come. This is not someone's speculation; this is technology alive and running down the road.
Here's a link to the article:
http://www.autoblog.com/2007/07/30/prius-price-drop-thanks-to-new-standard-model/
They call it the "standard" model, and maybe that's where the confusion comes from because I don't think this necessarily means manual transmission. It may just refer to some basic equipment package as opposed to a premium one.
BTW, you're unlikely to improve mpg by replacing a CVT with a manual. CVT is not like your typical automatic transmission - it does not have the power losses associated with it. Compare the same engine versions of cars that come with manual and CVT transmissions (Sentra, A4, etc.). You'll notice that the CVT gets the same or even slightly better mpg than a manual.
http://www.autoblog.com/2007/07/30/prius-price-drop-thanks-to-new-standard-model/
They call it the "standard" model, and maybe that's where the confusion comes from because I don't think this necessarily means manual transmission. It may just refer to some basic equipment package as opposed to a premium one.
BTW, you're unlikely to improve mpg by replacing a CVT with a manual. CVT is not like your typical automatic transmission - it does not have the power losses associated with it. Compare the same engine versions of cars that come with manual and CVT transmissions (Sentra, A4, etc.). You'll notice that the CVT gets the same or even slightly better mpg than a manual.
CC does seem to allow the car to set up for and maintain maximum mpg. The only exception would be where the conditions (including surrounding traffic) allows you to use the "pulse and glide" technique. Done correctly, P&G will produce even better results than the computer can through the CC. Good P&G, however, requires judgment and technique and so, will probably remain strictly a driver trick for some years to come.
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don't blame me for what I see on the tube ! Take a sedative and call TOYOTA executives in the morning . Good luck with that .
I think I get it now, and QP is on to the source of the problem. Toyota has used the term "standard" with some regularity in the past to describe low end versions of particular models. For example, in Camrydom, they've waffled back and forth, calling the low price version a CE or a Standard model. Notice how for 07 the bottom Camry was a CE, but now for '08, it's just Camry (standard) again.
As Lonnie mentioned, and I before, the motor-generators are part and parcel of, built into, etc., the CVT. MG-2, for example (the large motor-generator) is actually a part of the outer ring of the planetary gearset. Also (already mentioned), this is essentially a zero-slippage design already, and a clutch would only add inefficiency (at least when shifting...). No way this is going to be a manual transmission car. That would require a total redesign of the entire hybrid system -- hardly something that makes sense in order to sell a few more low end cars a year before the Prius-III makes its debut.
This is already being discussed at Priuschat.com: Click here for jump to Priuschat thread. No suggestion I see of a stickshift.
I forgot about that one! It shows that it can be done if the market ever heads in the direction of hybrids as "driver's cars". The Insight is too small for my tastes given the average size of vehicles on the road today.
My parents have owned an Insight since '00 and a Prius since '06. The Insight has 95k miles and 65 mpg lifetime. It's a much more driver-oriented car than the Prius. While you can just get in the Prius and drive without knowing or caring about mileage or the battery, you can't do that on the Insight. The Insight also rewards those who really want to push the envelope in gas mileage as 125mpg+ is obtainable on slower backroads. The Prius is also the worst feeling car I've ever driven while the Insight is surprisingly fun (this coming from a guy who daily drives a MINI Cooper S and has a Lotus Europa project).
Oh, and back to the original topic... in America, the "standard transmission" might as well be an autobox.
Oh, and back to the original topic... in America, the "standard transmission" might as well be an autobox.
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