Prestone extended life

[mechanicx]

If you go to Prestone's webpage they make some extraordinary claims that their extended life meets several standards. I've posted this before, they were challenged by Zerex before the consumer board or whatever it's called, and refused to stop marketing extended life as an all makes and models, claiming it meets many specifications for performance. Prestone gives more info about their coolant than does Peak with its Global. Prestone is still a 2EHA formula and seems like it would still have dexcool's potential pitfalls though.

Prestone

 

[qship1996]

Prestone is fine if changed at regular intervals, as are all universal all make/model coolants........afterall, they are just protecting aluminum alloy or steel engines-

Too many people worry too much about coolant selection-change it regularly and you will have no issues.

 

[Sayjac]

Originally Posted By: qship1996
Prestone is fine if changed at regular intervals, as are all universal all make/model coolants........afterall, they are just protecting aluminum alloy or steel engines-

Too many people worry too much about coolant selection-change it regularly and you will have no issues.
+1 At least that is my anecdotal experience in two different Asian makes.

 

[mechanicx]

Originally Posted By: qship1996
Prestone is fine if changed at regular intervals, as are all universal all make/model coolants........afterall, they are just protecting aluminum alloy or steel engines-

Too many people worry too much about coolant selection-change it regularly and you will have no issues.


It's not that simple. Prestone is a 2-EHA formula, that under idea conditions will protect well. But it is also known to be intolerant to air and a gasket eater. If someone wanted 2EHA why not get a real licensed Dexcool in the first place besides some cheap version that claims all makes and models when 2EHA clearly isn't. Changing dexcool/dexclone regualrly can only make the potantial problems worse.

 

[mechanicx]

Originally Posted By: sayjac
Quote:

Too many people worry too much about coolant selection-change it regularly and you will have no issues.
+1 At least that is my anecdotal experience in two different Asian makes.


Sayjac, while I think dexclone could be safe in anything that doesn't mean it always is and doesn't have a lot of potential risks that other coolants don't have. The problem is sometimes it takes Dexcool 100k miles to oviously eaten headgasket and intake gaskets. Or it takes a faulty pressure cap and combined with an iron and aluminum bi-metal engine, or a leak.

I was thinking there might be a few reasons why dexclone worked apparently fine in a Jpanese vehicle. I noticed that many Japanese cars seem to have a downflow radiator (most others have a crossflow), the pressure caps are mounted perfectly horizontal and may be spring centered, the engines are not bimetal and don't contain iron, often times it's a 4cylinder engine with a dry intake manifold and last perhaps by chance the gaskets are compatible with 2EHA. Maybe a full replacemennt of Dexcool wasn't ran the 5-10 years to totally destroy the engine, but just a partial mix for a few years. Lots of ifs in there and maybe one is just dodging a bullet.

You may never know if 2EHA deteriotated the gaskets or not until after many miles and several years, Then the damage is done.

 

[cos]

Quote:
Too many people worry too much about coolant selection-change it regularly and you will have no issues.


That may be true but let's not forget that every auto maker (except GM) tested Dexcool and REJECTED it. That carries weight with some folks, as it should.

If Ford can move away from the vaunted G-05 to Mazda FL22 can't GM get past DexCool? Sadly, it seems not.

 

[Sayjac]

One thing for sure, if 2eha in the universals and dexcool is that bad, sure are many aftermarket coolant companies promoting it as their predominate coolant.

After reading this board for, including some with much longer anecdotal experience than I, with no issues, it's just not a concern for me. The only thing thing I've seen is damage to some GM vehicle using dex with some intake manifold gaskets. Then there are those here who have used dex successfully in GM vehicles, like the S-10 (with pics) over a very long time with no issues.

I've seen/read no issues, including gaskets, of posters using the universals in the Asians. And by the time 10 years rolls around any possible issue at that point IMO, it could be due to anything or many things.

As always, everyone should use what they are comfortable with. I just happen to agree with qship. If and when a universal like Peak GL (full strength only) becomes readily available at reasonable prices, then that will be a practical option.

 

[pbm]

I just changed the timing belt in my 2001 Accord with 92K and the OE water pump looked like new. I have been running Peak Global for over 70K and 6 years. I am starting to believe (what qship1996 and sayjac say) that in a well designed, dry intake system any good long life coolant will work fine. In a poorly designed system, like my 3.1 Buicks, it's a whole different story and coolant choice is very important.

PS: the timing belt, tensioner, tensioner belt, water pump and both accessory belts all looked great at 92K and almost 9 years old. All looked like they could have went much further. I will have no qualms going the full 105K (Honda recommendation) next time.
I also realize that changing the OE Honda coolant at 2 years/20K was uneccessary. In a well designed system like this it really could have gone 5 years,IMO.

 

[mechanicx]

That sounds good for Peak Global, but in the case of 2EHA and Dexcool/Dexclone can look pristine inside the water jackets and still be slowly dissolving the head gasket and you wouldn't necessarily know it. It's not entirely the gasket fault if the coolant is aggressive against most common gasket materials used. It can also look pristine up until the day air gets in the system and now you got gum in the system you'll never be able to fully get out.

I just don't see the point in putting Dexcool in a vehicle that never came with it originally. Or any several pre 05 models that even did. And just because you get away with doesn't mean everyone will or you aren't playing with fire.

 

[AuthorEditor]

We all have read many tales of problems presumed to have been caused by Dexcool. But are there problems directly attributable to Prestone "All makes all models?" Yes, we understand that Dexcool and Prestone share an ingredient, but that doesn't make them the same thing. I just don't read about problems attributed to Prestone here, but maybe I've missed them.

 

[qship1996]

I have never heard Prestone all makes/models, peak global or extended life, or ANY other "all makes/models" universal type coolant cause ANY problems in any engines.....I think the engineers of those companies know a little more than us arm chair internet experts regarding their products suitability and therefor recommendations.My guess is even the dexcool problems were not started by the dexcool,rather poor choice of cooling system materials and construction from GM.

 

[mechanicx]

Originally Posted By: qship1996
I have never heard Prestone all makes/models, peak global or extended life, or ANY other "all makes/models" universal type coolant cause ANY problems in any engines.....I think the engineers of those companies know a little more than us arm chair internet experts regarding their products suitability and therefor recommendations.My guess is even the dexcool problems were not started by the dexcool,rather poor choice of cooling system materials and construction from GM.


I've seen Prestone extended life sludge like Dexcool. The problems with Dexcool were not just GM's fault in materials and construction. Cummins and a few others that used Dexcool had problems and avoid it like the plague. Dexcool and its clones all contain 2EHA and do not tolerate air and are agressive agianst many gasket materials period. You admit GM (and others) used gasket that weren't compatible with Dexcool even though they were FF with Dexcool, yet you act like Dexcool is safe to put into anything. It makes no sense.

Manufactures make mistakes, cheap out/seek short term profits and cover up their mistakes all the time. You can't always take their claims and suggestions as the gospel.

 

[mechanicx]

Originally Posted By: AuthorEditor
We all have read many tales of problems presumed to have been caused by Dexcool. But are there problems directly attributable to Prestone "All makes all models?" Yes, we understand that Dexcool and Prestone share an ingredient, but that doesn't make them the same thing. I just don't read about problems attributed to Prestone here, but maybe I've missed them.


Well Prestone all makes has 2EHA like their Dexcool version and has the same ingredients. Whether it is as sludge prone or as gasket deteriorating as the original Dexcool formula texaco had back in the late 90's it's hard to say. My view is 2EHA is the main inhibitor in all Dexcools and clones and is the reason for Dexcools earlier problems. I have seen Preston extended life sludge on cars that leak a little coolant.

The thing is you don't hear about them much because GM finally fixed the gasket design about 5 years ago and did away with the old style pressure caps. But how do you know your particular engine's gaskets are not susceptible to deterioation 2EHA? It is a slow process. If you want Dexcool then get Dexcool, but why assume Dexcool is now safe in everything and why not put something else in cars that never came with Dexcool or are known to have problems with it? Sure GM's nylon, silicon and whatever else gasket materials deserve some blame but so does Dexcool for deteriorating those materials.

 

[AuthorEditor]

What I am saying is that just because Prestone and Dexcool share one ingredient doesn't mean they are the same thing. Do we know they both contain the same amount of 2EHA? Do we know that 2EHA is even the problem with Dexcool? What else is in Dexcool? Your testimony here that Prestone can sludge up like Dexcool is very interesting, and it is one of the few such testimonies I've read on here. We just don't seem to get many people complaining about problems with Prestone, yet it must be one of the most popular, if not the most popular, antifreezes on the market--you see it in every store that sells auto products.

 

[mechanicx]

I understand your point, but Prestone licensed Dexcool and their extended life has the same ingredients. there is no other inhibitor that anyone has ben able to find.

I can't say for a fact that they have the same level of 2EHA inhibitor but I bet they do. If you trust 2EHA (the main inhibitor in dexcool/clones) do you really want an anti-freeze with less inhibitor?

As I said Dexcool and clones work good in idea conditions. GM fixed the gaskets and switched the reservoir/pressure cap design.

But to answer your question would require laboratory testing of Prestone extended life and the gaskets used in your application. The problems in the real world with dexclone are out there but you just aren't seeing them for various reasons-the cars that can't handle dexcool are in the junkyard and no one has determined why, people are just topping up with a few onces of it, or the car just happens to have compatible gaskets, or the potential promblem is there but there has to be a leak and a bad pressure cap on the radiator etc.

My point is it's not really clear that Dexcool and clones don't have the same potential problems that they always did. I have seen a total refil of Prestone extended life quicky sludge. Why not use a coolant that is believed to always been compatible with all gaskets and with air in the system?

 

[Ursae_Majoris]

Originally Posted By: AuthorEditor
Do we know that 2EHA is even the problem with Dexcool?
Yes we do. 2EHA IS a plasticizer. It will affect gaskets not designed for it.

 

[rangerfan24]

My 2 cents. There are multiple all makes all models coolants. Peak makes one, prestone makes one, then there are the 150,000 mile house brands that seem identical. A lot of people are saying that dexcool is the same as extended life. From a marketing perspective that would be a dumb idea by prestone. They have to pay for a seperate bottle and labeling just to write dexcool when they could squeeze it in somewhere on their extended life. My guess, extended life is a less agressive 2eha. T he company would not risk writing all makes all models, someone would have figured it out by now and they would have gotten sued up the but. Additionally, car manufacturers I think would say no 2eha in their manuals if it was that bad. Go to the zerex website, they got dexcool recomended for the asian cars and then they have an asian formula.Peaks got all makes all models, and its is made by cci, who also makes Toyota and supertech. Last time I checked supertech had 2eha. I do not think a company would make an OEM coolant and then make an all makes coolant knowing that if anyone put it in a toyota they;'d be doing damage. I think, logically, that gm had a poor design with gaskets and cooling systems and the coolant that was in it gummed up and everyone freaked out about dexcool and 2eha because it was the coolant that was in there. Can anyone verify that there is a coolant you could put in a gm car that wont gum up in a certain condition where dexcool does? If not, it is probably getting a bad rap due to design of the systems in gm cars. If it was the coolant fault, gm would have switched off as they would not care. But if they had to make their cooling systems designs better, well that costs money and its a whole different story.

 

[Dan55]

+1

 

[mechanicx]

Originally Posted By: rangerfan24
My 2 cents. There are multiple all makes all models coolants. Peak makes one, prestone makes one, then there are the 150,000 mile house brands that seem identical. A lot of people are saying that dexcool is the same as extended life. From a marketing perspective that would be a dumb idea by prestone. They have to pay for a seperate bottle and labeling just to write dexcool when they could squeeze it in somewhere on their extended life.


It would not be dumb at all for Peak and Prestone to have Dexcool in a separate label for their all makes anti-freeze. That way they don't have to pay the Dexcool license fee and avoid the perception that they are marketing Dexcool for everything.

Quote:
My guess, extended life is a less agressive 2eha. T he company would not risk writing all makes all models, someone would have figured it out by now and they would have gotten sued up the but. Additionally, car manufacturers I think would say no 2eha in their manuals if it was that bad.


Prestone was challenged by Zerex about their all makes extended life. Prestone lost but refused to stop marketing it. I guess it's possible but I'm not sure how a mostly 2EHA formula can be less aggressive than another. Some manufacteure do say no 2EHA. The thing is manuals are vague and just recommend the OE coolant, which by default is recommending against 2EHA. Honda and Ford, Cummins and who knows who else outright rejected 2EHA.

Quote:
Go to the zerex website, they got dexcool recomended for the asian cars and then they have an asian formula.Peaks got all makes all models, and its is made by cci, who also makes Toyota and supertech. Last time I checked supertech had 2eha.


Supertech is supplied by Prestone and Peak but I don't know that CCI makes Peak or Supertech, but suppliers probably change over time. Zerex did recomened Dexcool for Asian cars but that's probably more because that was the closest thing they had, and not proof that it was perfectly compatible. I get your point though that Dexcool might work in Asian vehicles without problems. It might not too.

Quote:
So I do not think a company would make an OEM coolant and then make an all makes coolant knowing that if anyone put it in a toyota they;'d be doing damage. I think, logically, that gm had a poor design with gaskets and cooling systems and the coolant that was in it gummed up and everyone freaked out about dexcool and 2eha because it was the coolant that was in there. Can anyone verify that there is a coolant you could put in a gm car that wont gum up in a certain condition where dexcool does? If not, it is probably getting a bad rap due to design of the systems in gm cars. If it was the coolant fault, gm would have switched off as they would not care. But if they had to make their cooling systems designs better, well that costs money and its a whole different story.


A lot of people put american green in GM cars to solve the gumming problem. G-05 isn't known to gum. PGL isn't either but is probably less proven. I agree that part of the problem was gasket design. But part of the problem was 2EHA. It is agressive with certain gasket material and can gum in the presence of air. Dexcool has caused gasket failures for other manufacturers like some HDs, and probably for VW too. You can probably assume that an '05 and later GM car is Dexcool proof, but it's hard to assume that every make and model is.

 

[rangerfan24]

coolant sucks lol. Prestone says its non silicate, non phosphate non borate. So according to the toyota manual, it meets the criteria. If it doesn't work, and something leaks, someone is getting sued. You guys can back me up ;-)