Pre-oiler questions

[sifan]

As I prepare to intall my 1-qt Accusump, I have few newbi questions that need answers.

1) The instruction warns against mounting the sump next to a hot source. This eliminates the only spot in the engine bay which is right above the exhaust header. So, I have to mount it inside the car. I got a piece of 24" by 5.5" by 0.75" red oak board and intend to mount the sump on it. My question is this: will the heat from the sump distort the wood in the long run since the sump has to be mounted on a flat surface?

2) To pre-fill the sump the instruction says to pump 7-10 psi of air into air chamber, and then start the engine to fill the oil chamber. A 10-foot 1/4" oil hose will be used in my set up. With such a long hose, wouldn't there be a lot of air trapped inside the oil chamber as oil pushes its way thru the hose?

3) As oil enter the oil chamber of sump, the air pressure gauge reading should increase. Is there a way to interpret the air pressure reading into oil volumn in the oil chamber?

4) If my engine idles at 12 psi of oil prssure, will the sump hold 12 psi as well given the air chamber starts with 10 psi and an empty oil chamber? In other words, will the sump hold enough oil for pre-lubing prior next engine startup? Should I rev up the engine to allow more oil enter the sump prior shutdown?

5) How much oil is needed to pre-lube a 1.5L 4-cylinder engine?

Thanks.

 

[Gary Allan]

Hmm ..sifan ..can't you rig a heat shield? Like a two piece deal seperated by short spacers?? It shouldn't take too much to fabricate it. It sure would be a more tidy install. You just need a minimal air gap. Air is a poor conductor of heat.

 

[slalom44]

1) A heat shield should work as Gary suggests, but if you live in a warm climate, that area can get pretty toasty. Accusump is likely trying to protect the electrical portion of the system to prevent a solenoid failure. IMHO, if it's too hot to touch, it's too hot for the Accusump. Most cars have some room in front of the radiator, where temperatures are nice and cool.

2) Air in the hose would be a problem only for the first few times you pressurize the system. After that, the air would be purged. You might want to prefill, or prime the hoses and the Accusump itself if you're concerned.

3) The air pressure will increase with a decrease in volume. To determine exactly how much oil has displaced air inside the Accusump, you need to know how much air is in there to begin with. If you know this, then you can use the Ideal Gas Law (PV=NRT), or P1V1/T1=P2V2/T2 to calculate V2, the volume of air remaining in the Accusump at the higher temperature. If you want to do this, please post the volume and I can help you calculate this.

Personally, I don't think it is that crucial that you have your system fully pressurized when you start your engine. It is possible that the only thing the Accusump does is fill your oil filter and the galleries with oil. The important thing is to have oil pressure when the engine is turning over.

4) I am under the impression that the Accusump will shut the valve when you turn the engine off, so if you are idling at 12psi, that's what you will get. If I were you, I'd add an interval timer to your setup. With an interval timer, you can get the valve to close after a set amount of time (e.g. 30 seconds) after you start the car. Since your oil pressure is always high when the oil is cold, you will fill the Accusump much more than if you don't do it this way. Another alternative would be to add a toggle switch to the circuit, closing the relay manually when you know the pressure is high. Personally, I wouldn't do it this way because from experience you will forget at times.

5) How much is needed? That depends on how much oil has drained out of your filter & galleries, but in my opinion any amount is better than none. If you don't see the oil light on when your car starts, the Accusump is doing its job. My experience with my system (a prelube pump, not an Accusump) suggests that about a pint of oil will fill everything up most of the time if the car has been sitting for a week.

 

[sifan]

1) I will have to install the Accusump inside the car.

2) How do you purge the air in the oil chamber? Assuming air will enter the oil chamber along with oil the first time, can I just invert the Accusump so air will be on top of oil inside the oil chamber, and purge the air and oil into the engine? This way the hose will be filled with oil during next engine startup.

3) The Accusump technical support said the 1 qt system will hold at most 3 pints of oil. I guess I will not worry too much it.

4) The kit does come with a toggle switch for the electrical valve. Since the Accusump will be placed close next to me, I can monitor its air gauge easily. Also, I plan to install an aftermarket oil pressure gauge next to it, so, I can see the changes in oil pressure, and be reminded to shut off the valve at the right moment.

5) Only a pint of oil is needed to prime an engine! That is very comforting to know. I guess I do not have to worry there will too much oil in the engine during startup after Accusump carries out its task.

Thanks for sharing your experience.

 

[Thumper]

I may be off subject but I added a 3 Qt pre-oiler by Master lube, when charged it's half oil and air at 48 psi (normal motor pressure) on a 4.6 Rover. I run a 7" Fram PH977A filter (holds 1 qt), the oiler will pre-oil even with a new dry filter. I run a timer to get 4 seconds after establishing 16 psi, goes up to app 24 psi to get everything dripping wet inside before starting. A combo red/green LED shows when oiling then green to start. All oil from the oiler is filtered to the motor thu a modified Perma-cool sandwich adapter. A gauge with switch to read accumulator pressure or motor pressure. There is a hollow steel ball that floats in the accumulator, it will seal off to prevent the air precharge from getting into the oil passages. When the accumulator is blown down and empty the air precharge should be 24 psi so the accumulator will be 1/2 full when when the motor replaces the oil used from the last preoil, takes 2 1/2 minutes. Rover Discoveries have a oil pump like a auto trans on the crank snout, big drain back problem, they have normal 8-12 seconds dry starts hence all bearings into brass. My $.02. Carl.....=o&o>.....

 

[canadiantim]

Sounds like a great setup. Love to see some photos.

Sifan, how did you make out with your install?

 

[porcupine73]

This thread has been dead for awhile, but in response,

1. I squeezed my 1 qt accusump in the engine compartment right above the air filter casing. I doubt the temp from the Accusump will cause any problems with the wood; the oil temp might be 250 deg. F. at the absolute max and in the accusump probably much less unless you're exchanging a lot of oil in the thing, and even then, the wood should be able to take that temp.

2. You want to keep the end of the accusump with the hose connection at least a little higher than the opposite end so it will burp out the excess air eventually. When I installed mine, I kept the valve on the Accusump closed when I started the engine and 'bled' the hose until I had oil coming out at the Accusump valve. Still, keep the hose end of the sump higher to let out any air bubbles.

3. When I installed mine, I had the engine hot so when I filled the accusump I could feel by the hot area on it where the oil was. If you calculate the actual volume of the 1 qt. accusump it is more than 1 qt. I think.

4. What I do on my Accusump is I open the valve before starting the engine and let it sit for a while until the pressure gauge drops thus indicating it has ejected a good amount of oil. Then I start the engine. I close the valve again a couple minutes after I start driving, preferably while at 2000 rpm or above. This locks my Accusump with about 70psi pressure in it for a good preoil on the next startup. It is harder at least for me to get the oil pressure up that high if the engine is already warm; cool oil gives me more pressure.

5. Not sure how much is needed for a good preoil. I have an Amsoil preoiler on my other car and it is only like 100cc which is not much, way less than a quart.

One other note is that I keep the engine oil pretty much at the full mark (engine off, Accusump containing oil charged at about 70 psi). When I release the Accusump I'm a little overfull until the oil goes back into the Accusump. I normally start the engine cold, so I figure I have a little slack there considering the noack of the oil.

I bought my 12V solenoid valve (Parker) from MSC for a lot less than the Canton valve. I selected a relatively low Cv because I didn't want the sump taking a large oil flow and potentially starving the oil gallery.

- Louis