PQIA Oil Analysis

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Hi all, new member here, but I've been reading the articles and forums for a while. I have a Civic Si that takes 0W20 oil, and like everyone else, I'm just interested in the best stuff to put in my car. I came across the Petroleum Quality Institute website and on there they compare different brands of 5W30 synthetic oil. PQIA

I'm currently using Kendall GT-1 0W20 with liquid titanium. Looking at the oil make-up on the PQIA website, it seems like the additive package for Kendall is pretty strong. It has as much Moly as Mobil 1 and it has titanium on top of that. It is also contains quite a bit of calcium and boron in comparison with others, so there is a healthy dose of anti-wear and detergents in there. I know these numbers don't tell the whole story, so I just wanted to get peoples' thoughts on this list. These samples were done in 2013 on 5W30 instead of 0W20, so it's not quite apples to apples for me, but it's a reference point.
 
Well being the best is very hard and impossible to truly figure out. One way to pick a higher performer oil is going by its approvals. Dexos is a good specification for sure. The Ford wss-msc 946 for 5w30 is a good spec has well. ACEA A1/B1 and A5/B5 are about the equivalent to those two specs. MB 229.5 and 229.3 VW 502/505 are tougher specs than those mentioned. Porsche A40 and C30 are very high level specifications that are two of the toughest out there too. Because Mobil 1 0w40 and Castrol 0w40 have all of these tough specs is why they are two of the highest respected oils.

The operating viscosity creates separation of the specifications. A 30 grade cannot get the Porsche A40 spec because it doesn't have a high enough HTHS at 150°C. Castrol 0w30 cannot be an ILSAC GF-5 oil because it has too high HTHS and operating viscosity that doesn't meet the fuel economy needed to meet ILSAC GF-5. So, a 20 grade/ operating viscosity cannot obtain certain specifications and vice versa is true too.

A 0w20 that has a Dexos approval, ACEA A1/B1, and Ford's wss-msc 929 approval is a very good oil. I tend to believe it's true that the 0w20 is a bit of a stronger oil than a 5w20. Though I used a bunch of 5w20 Castrol gold bottle on my Ford Fusion with great results too.
 
There's many organic additives that don't show up on the PQIA analysis or any cheap analysis for that matter. I would personally focus more on what performance criteria the oil meets to compare them.

That being said all the name brand 0w20s are really good, I'm sort of partial to Pennzoil and Mobil 1
 
I really doubt that you will ever notice any difference in engine life using any of the oils at the "syn" oil price point. Oils these days whether conventional or "syn" are really good. What makes an engine last is its operation cycle. and proper maintenance.
 
The Kendall seems to be a quality oil..like 901 I like Pennz and M1, but I would keep doing what you are doing. I wouldnt hesitate to use it.
 
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I've been looking at Kendall GT-1 synthetics too, now that I can find them locally.

They are made by ConocoPhillips and are a Group 3 synthetic. They always show fine numbers. Decent TBN, Decent NOACK, Solid Zinc, Good Boron and with some Titanium and Moly added as well.

Sounds good to me. Sure it's not made to Porsche A40 spec., but for a Honda Civic I'm sure it will do it's job nicely.

If you like it and you can find it at a price you are happy with, then I say, go for it !

I would have no problem using that 5W-30 in a Honda as well.
 
Originally Posted By: tig1
The Moly in all M1 oils is different than Moly in Kendall.


Moly is Moly. Don't believe all the rubbish that's spouted about tri-molecular Moly.
 
PQIA can be disregarded IMO, they aren't cutting edge so much as last decade.

Sulfur content in gas?
SL? SM? SN?

There are much higher and more stringent standards available for those who want them but currently PQIA lag far behind ACEA & JASO.

Use a more current supplier whilst considering that Stock Cars used carburettors until a couple years ago, even thou there were far superior systems available.

Dinosaurs would rather die out than evolve.
 
Don't conflate PQIA with API. PQIA tests off the shelf motor oils, including ones that have been rated A5/B5 or E7, E9, whereas the API licenses the North American type oil specifications.

But, in a similar vein, VOAs only say so much, and choosing oil on the basis of something that isn't very cutting edge isn't terribly helpful. If it's within specifications, great. PQIA is here to find oils that don't meet API standards (or perhaps other things they advertise but don't meet).

With respect to the API standards being weak, which is totally another topic, I have a feeling some North American manufacturers are on the verge of learning a VW/Audi type early 1990s lesson, the hard way, just like they did. GM seems to have learned at least a bit from the mistakes of others.
 
Originally Posted By: Joe90_guy
Originally Posted By: tig1
The Moly in all M1 oils is different than Moly in Kendall.


Moly is Moly. Don't believe all the rubbish that's spouted about tri-molecular Moly.


Because it all becomes MoS2 in the Zn/P/S glassy tribofilm ???
 
Shannow,

From the wear/friction side, probably yes, but it's more complex than that because Moly can impact on so many other aspects of the oil.

There are lots of different types of oil soluble Moly you can put in engine oils. Moly Di-thio Phosphates are an analogue of ZDDP and are the commonest but like ZDDPs, they contain both Phosphorus and Sulphur which may be constrained. Moly Di-thio Carbamates contain Sulphur but no Phosphorus which might sound good until you realise the Nitrogen in MoDTC can shread elastomer seals. Vanderbilt do some Moly additives than contain no Sulphur or Phosphorus and Tianhe's Moly ester is interesting.

I'm only saying this because while 'Moly is Moly' (on an equally metal in oil basis) the actual Moly additive you select is as often as not based on the other attributes of the additive, but it doesn't necessarily make it a 'better Moly' in terms of it's primary function.

Also, not so long ago, Moly in oil was a patent/IP minefield. Often the sole reason you used a specific Moly was not because it was the best or even the cheapest, but because you knew you had the necessary 'freedom to practice'.
 
PQIA have been cutting corners on their tests recently, e.g. sulfur content for a lot of oils is missing.
 
Originally Posted By: Y_K
PQIA have been cutting corners on their tests recently, e.g. sulfur content for a lot of oils is missing.


I suspect one of the sponsors has 'asked' for sulphur to be removed from what's reported. I only say that because most metals in oil analysis today is done using ICP and if the machine is properly set up, you get sulphur for 'free'.
 
Originally Posted By: Joe90_guy
Originally Posted By: Y_K
PQIA have been cutting corners on their tests recently, e.g. sulfur content for a lot of oils is missing.


I suspect one of the sponsors has 'asked' for sulphur to be removed from what's reported. I only say that because most metals in oil analysis today is done using ICP and if the machine is properly set up, you get sulphur for 'free'.


Sulfur was dropped because it was an expensive test that was not providing useful information. Sulfur comes from many sources, including base oils and several additives, and drawing conclusions from a total sulfur content was not scientific. In addition, virtually every oil tested passed the sulfur limits set forth in the API and ILSAC specifications.

The usefulness of sulfur testing was discussed with the full Advisory Board and the decision to drop it was made by PQIA's President. No sponsor requested the elimination of sulfur testing - it was strictly a bang-for-the-buck decision. I am not aware of any testing labs offering sulfur for free in their metals testing package.

Tom NJ
 
Originally Posted By: Tom NJ
I am not aware of any testing labs offering sulfur for free in their metals testing package.

Tom NJ

Wearcheck used to include it their basic oil analysis. Not sure if they still do.
 
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