PP 5w20 15,000kms 03 Caravan 3.3L V6

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Rabbler

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Latest sample from my van.
PP 5w30 (active cleansing labeled)
Superteck ST8A filter (oversize)
Silicon is still a mystery so a new Fram air filter went in after this oil change.
Looks like it got a little thick again which is why I chose the 5w20 this time over the 5w30.
Pretty happy otherwise although I would like lower iron...
5w20 PP went back in with a Fram Extended Guard XG8A filter.
Probably run it 15-20 Kms again.

Comments welcome

caravananalysis2edit.jpg
 
Silicon is alarmingly high on this sample, and your viscosity is through the roof (for a 20-weight!)

Roughly the same thing happened on your last run (visc. and insols. high), so I'd say you have a worsening air leak, that is letting in loads of dirt.

I'd check your air-intake system carefully....
 
I have to agree with Blackstone's confusion. Normally an intake leak would have other metals elevated ..which they aren't.

Curious.

What exceptional service do you subject this engine to? I have to imagine something like some sustained high output scenario to age this oil in this length of time.
 
I've never seen a good synthetic 20 wt. oil thicken to a solid 30 wt. before.

Check out that calcium! It looks like an amount in some high-end Amsoil oils.

This engine may need a good internal cleaning. Pick your favorite weapon (solvent quick flush, Auto-RX, 1 qt. of MMO in the oil for the last 1000 miles, Lube Control LC20). I'd try the MMO or LC20 since it will also thin the oil which desirable in this case.
 
Use is 95% highway miles through the Canadian prairies and US Midwest.
No towing.
I've owned the van less than a year and don't know its service history but it appears to have been well maintained visually.
Maybe this is the result of the "active cleansing" claimed by Pennzoil?
I did notice this last interval the new oil got dark very quickly.
 
Originally Posted By: JAG
I've never seen a good synthetic 20 wt. oil thicken to a solid 30 wt. before.

Check out that calcium! It looks like an amount in some high-end Amsoil oils.

.


That went under my radar. That's up there with ACD and HDD.



Quote:
This engine may need a good internal cleaning.


I'm thinking cooling system. I can only imagine (and I may be off base here) that sustained higher than normal oil temps caused that thickening. I'm thinking lack of optimum heat transfer making the oil the next easiest outlet. I'm talking engine to coolant transfer ..not coolant to rad/heater core. Those would be evidenced by overheating ..which isn't apparent from Rambler.

Now.. admittedly, that would be one oddball/obscure condition. One that we never really encounter ..but so is two back to back thickening out of grade UOA's where they should be in the absolute sweet spot for longevity in service.

I'd love to see the oxidation/nitration numbers.
 
Yeah, that thickening is nuts. That is not only a 30 but a deep 30, thicker than most starburst 30s out of the bottle. I do not think I have ever seen a UOA with it thickened so significantly out of grade with normal TBN. I wonder what TAN is.
 
I've had 2 PP runs and like the oil,but the M1 EP seemed to run longer before breaking down in my fuel diluting Accord V6.
 
Quote:
I'm thinking cooling system. I can only imagine (and I may be off base here) that sustained higher than normal oil temps caused that thickening. I'm thinking lack of optimum heat transfer making the oil the next easiest outlet. I'm talking engine to coolant transfer ..not coolant to rad/heater core. Those would be evidenced by overheating ..which isn't apparent from Rambler.

Now.. admittedly, that would be one oddball/obscure condition. One that we never really encounter ..but so is two back to back thickening out of grade UOA's where they should be in the absolute sweet spot for longevity in service.

I'd love to see the oxidation/nitration numbers.

Yeah that sounds like a decent possibility, especially since he said it looks well maintained visually.

He could get an IR Gun and check the oil pan temperature after long drives to see if temps are high.

Another thing to do would be do a coolant system cleaning/flush in case scale has built up to the point of reducing thermal conductivity. He could change the thermostat in case it is not opening completely.
 
Yeah, if there is no gauge ..or one of the numb'd "center weighted" types that don't move until they're definitely into some risk zone, it might go totally under the radar for indications. The system itself should tolerate 230-250 without physical manifestations.
 
I don't think there is any overheating issue.
I've never checked temps with IR gun but temp gauge is right in the middle and my scan tool show operating temp to be about 200-205 Degrees F.
Van also has trailer prep, aux trans cooler and dual heat.
I would think those would also keep tems down.
Bit of a mystery...
 
In your post it says PP 5W30 but on the report it says its a 5W20. What oil was this sample? I know you said this time %w 20 went in.
 
It was a typo but it was to late to change it. The latest sample was 5w20 and 5w20 went back in.
 
I think any thickening has to be related to the insolubles. I know he was below .6 but it has to be insoulbes combined with oxidation. It cannot be all oxidation related though because the TBN was still very good and most oils have to be close to depleted before you see oxidation start to ramp up the oils viscosity.

I too would like to have seen oxidation/nitration numbers on this!
 
This is one curious bird.

I'd probably try and eliminate a few things before giving a sample to Terry. I'd make sure that the air filtration/plumbing is sound. I know the usual suspects aren't present, but that doesn't necessarily mean that there isn't an issue.

The calcium is way out of line, as JAG pointed out. This would make sense if some additive was put into the sump that either Rabbler was unaware of or didn't report. That doesn't flush either since the previous UOA shows more sensible calc adds ..half the silicon over more mileage ..yet still thickened.

I'd probably first just change from PP. It may not work over that drain interval in that engine in that service. One bout with a comparable oil should eliminate the brand. If (something like) a Castrol product did the same thing, then it's assured to be anything but the oil.

There's nothing outright alarming there. Just stuff that is unexpected and seeks/needs explanation.
 
I don't think Calcium is out of range.
I've seen recent 5w30 PP reports showing over 3100 ppm. Maybe it's even higher on the 5w20.
No additives were added to the sample.
We'll see next time if a fresh air filter and better oil filter effect silicon and insolubles.
 
It's just an atypical calcium level. Most are well south of 3000 ..some a great deal south. However the PP 5w30 VOA I found was @ 3100. They may have a no limits on how far calcium is off to the upside in terms of what would require rework.

This is a puzzle, Rabbler. The solution to a puzzle is its own reward. This is the fun stuff around here.
 
It was a 5W30 not a 5W20. Then there are no anomolies in the report.

Either the OP made a mistake or Blackstone switched samples.
 
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