PP 5W-35 SN, 3k OCI, Kia Optima SX 2.0T-GDI
- Thread starter RedHotOptima
- Start date
- Status
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Originally Posted By: DrDusty86
I see M1 hasn't gotten any better.. the M1 UOA looks worse than PP. THAT's horrible.. I'm so sorry you had to find out that way... Stick to PP
"looks worse" meaning what exactly?
I see M1 hasn't gotten any better.. the M1 UOA looks worse than PP. THAT's horrible.. I'm so sorry you had to find out that way... Stick to PP
"looks worse" meaning what exactly?
dnewton3
Staff member
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: DrDusty86
I see M1 hasn't gotten any better.. the M1 UOA looks worse than PP. THAT's horrible.. I'm so sorry you had to find out that way... Stick to PP
"looks worse" meaning what exactly?
Yeah .... this isn't a good conclusion.
We cannot look at one, or even a few, UOAs and declare some kind of winner/loser relationship among lubes. Just cannot be done with any sense of pragmatic logic. There is too much variation in singular UOA. We can ONLY compare/contrast them to averages with full statistical analysis.
- If you want to view a singular UOA against the UAs, then you'd have to know the sigma node value; does anyone have that for the criteria here? If not, any conclusion one draws is pure speculation.
- If you want to view a particuar product against another, then you'd have to run a full battery of complete testing, with well controlled inputs and variables, over a minimum of 30 samples for each contender, and then subjecting such results to full statistical analysis midnful of the DOE modeling
I know this sounds conceited, but I dont' care. My apologies for the bluntness of the following statement:
There are some folks here that need to read, and then re-read, and perhaps even read yet again, my article on UOA normalcy.
.
Originally Posted By: DrDusty86
I see M1 hasn't gotten any better.. the M1 UOA looks worse than PP. THAT's horrible.. I'm so sorry you had to find out that way... Stick to PP
"looks worse" meaning what exactly?
Yeah .... this isn't a good conclusion.
We cannot look at one, or even a few, UOAs and declare some kind of winner/loser relationship among lubes. Just cannot be done with any sense of pragmatic logic. There is too much variation in singular UOA. We can ONLY compare/contrast them to averages with full statistical analysis.
- If you want to view a singular UOA against the UAs, then you'd have to know the sigma node value; does anyone have that for the criteria here? If not, any conclusion one draws is pure speculation.
- If you want to view a particuar product against another, then you'd have to run a full battery of complete testing, with well controlled inputs and variables, over a minimum of 30 samples for each contender, and then subjecting such results to full statistical analysis midnful of the DOE modeling
I know this sounds conceited, but I dont' care. My apologies for the bluntness of the following statement:
There are some folks here that need to read, and then re-read, and perhaps even read yet again, my article on UOA normalcy.
.
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: DrDusty86
I see M1 hasn't gotten any better.. the M1 UOA looks worse than PP. THAT's horrible.. I'm so sorry you had to find out that way... Stick to PP
"looks worse" meaning what exactly?
lol +1, yea.... what? At least I know hes a RP fan so that explains that
Originally Posted By: DrDusty86
I see M1 hasn't gotten any better.. the M1 UOA looks worse than PP. THAT's horrible.. I'm so sorry you had to find out that way... Stick to PP
"looks worse" meaning what exactly?
lol +1, yea.... what? At least I know hes a RP fan so that explains that
Originally Posted By: RedHotOptima
Originally Posted By: REDDOG
+1. I looked at your previous UOA. Where it says fuel 1.8% it is probably about 5%. Mobil 1 was earning it's keep in that report! Where it says TR for this report I am guessing fuel is actually between 2-3%. Nothing against Blackstone. I know they are extremely nice folks with great customer service.
Just wanted you to be aware. To get accurate fuel measurement you need a lab like Polaris that uses GC.
Appreciate the post, however what makes you so sure that 1.8% was closer to 5% and Trace was more like 2-3%??
Did you see my post above with the graph of DIESEL fuel dilution and how I then posted you cannot use such a chart for petrol dilution percents? If not and you're using articles/graphs that speak on diesel fuel, then you are off base. If you have found a study, etc, on PETROL/GASOLINE flashpoint drop Verses Fuel Dilution, then I'd love to see the link etc.
I don't disagree that Blackstone isn't the absolute top notch lab, BUT I don't know or see the basis to claim their fuel % is soooo off. I've only seen diesel studies to back up this claim and that is flawed and not fair to Blackstone.
^anyone?
Originally Posted By: REDDOG
+1. I looked at your previous UOA. Where it says fuel 1.8% it is probably about 5%. Mobil 1 was earning it's keep in that report! Where it says TR for this report I am guessing fuel is actually between 2-3%. Nothing against Blackstone. I know they are extremely nice folks with great customer service.
Just wanted you to be aware. To get accurate fuel measurement you need a lab like Polaris that uses GC.
Appreciate the post, however what makes you so sure that 1.8% was closer to 5% and Trace was more like 2-3%??
Did you see my post above with the graph of DIESEL fuel dilution and how I then posted you cannot use such a chart for petrol dilution percents? If not and you're using articles/graphs that speak on diesel fuel, then you are off base. If you have found a study, etc, on PETROL/GASOLINE flashpoint drop Verses Fuel Dilution, then I'd love to see the link etc.
I don't disagree that Blackstone isn't the absolute top notch lab, BUT I don't know or see the basis to claim their fuel % is soooo off. I've only seen diesel studies to back up this claim and that is flawed and not fair to Blackstone.
^anyone?
RedHotOptima,
I didn't read any article per se, it is more based on observation and personal experience managing a small fleet of emergency vehicles.
Let me also say I don't think for the purposes most of us use oil analysis it is necessary to know the "exact" concentration of fuel. However in your particular case your fuel is very high and I just wanted you to be aware it is probably much higher than reported. My estimates are just that, estimates.
My comments are also applicable to any labs that use the respective techniques. I'm not picking on Blackstone at all, just highlighting the limitation of the open cup flashpoint. IME Blackstone is great customer service defined, so this is not anything against them.
Here are two articles covering each method. I think once one considers how the fuel is measured in each case, the advantages become apparent.
www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/19
www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/352/gas-chromatography
I think your short oil drains are a very good idea.
There have been a few folks around here with oil shearing DI engines that have gone to using a lab with GC and found out why there oils were shearing..
I think short drains and dino such as VWB are the way to go here.
A guy I work with just bought a new Optima. I think they are one of the best looking cars on the road. I hope you enjoy yours! Must be fun to drive!
I didn't read any article per se, it is more based on observation and personal experience managing a small fleet of emergency vehicles.
Let me also say I don't think for the purposes most of us use oil analysis it is necessary to know the "exact" concentration of fuel. However in your particular case your fuel is very high and I just wanted you to be aware it is probably much higher than reported. My estimates are just that, estimates.
My comments are also applicable to any labs that use the respective techniques. I'm not picking on Blackstone at all, just highlighting the limitation of the open cup flashpoint. IME Blackstone is great customer service defined, so this is not anything against them.
Here are two articles covering each method. I think once one considers how the fuel is measured in each case, the advantages become apparent.
www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/19
www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/352/gas-chromatography
I think your short oil drains are a very good idea.
There have been a few folks around here with oil shearing DI engines that have gone to using a lab with GC and found out why there oils were shearing..
I think short drains and dino such as VWB are the way to go here.
A guy I work with just bought a new Optima. I think they are one of the best looking cars on the road. I hope you enjoy yours! Must be fun to drive!
- Status
Similar threads
