PP 5W-30, 7,649 mi, '96 Buick RMWagon 5.7L

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Changed it back in Feb with Pennzoil Platinum 5W-30 and put on a new Amsoil oil filter.
Previous fill 2,500 miles of the Rotella T 10W-30 to continue flushing out the Aluminum from a previous issue, no UOA was done.

See previous UOA here.
Fifth sample of 10/17/09 was Rotella T 10W-30 with a new Amsoil Filter.
Fourth sample of 8/20/09 was Rotella T 10W-30 and did not get a new filter, left the Amsoil filter on for 2 runs.
Third sample of 5/15/09 was Rotella T 10W-30 and a new Amsoil filter.
Second sample of 7/28/08 was GC with a UPF-52 filter.
First sample of 9/2/07 was Valvoline 10W-30 most likely with a cheap oil filter from my mechanic after fixing some oil leaks.

Napa Gold air filters used, changed at 120k, 130k, and 140k miles.

Blackstone Coments:
It looks like the higher lead you tend to get from bearing wear has something to do with the amount of silicon in the oil. For this sample it may also have to do with the miles run on the oil. Take a good look arouind the air filtration system to see if you can find any faults that would let abrasive dirt get in with the intake air. Some of the silicon is coming from the cylinder walls but not all of it. As to the miles, try dropping back to 6,000-miles for the next sample. The TBN was still okay at 2.0 so acid fighting oil power is not used up. Nice improvement in aluminum.



Good UOA's are always more fun to post and this one certainly isn't all that great, but I'll post it anyway. The previous Aluminum issue I've decided was most likely due to running the vehicle out of fuel (nearly). It was low enough on fuel that the fuel pressure was low causing the CEL to come on for the last 2 miles before the fuel stop. This was while running at full throttle hauling a travel trailer over some hills in NY State. I have an oil cooler so it took a few OCI's to flush out the Al and it seems to be a past issue. The car is spec'd for 5W-30 year round and I was wanting to get back to that so I tried the PP 5W-30 this time even though the Rotella T 10W-30 was doing pretty good. My other car had its high lead issue solved by switching from M1 to PP and I was hoping the PP was going to work as well as the Rotella in this vehicle. Perhaps not. I also didn't do the car any favors by running it well past the normal amount of miles. I've been running 5k mile OCI's but this time I decided that I was confident the Al issue was gone and I'd try to run until the OLM went off. I've only let the OLM go once in the past and it went off at 6k miles so I figured it would likely be a small increase in miles over the previous 5k mile OCI but this time it didn't go off until over 7600 miles. I had given up waiting for the OLM light to go off and was going to change it the night of 9/7/10 but on my way home from work it did go off. It is just a dummy light with no %. All numbers look fairly good except the lead which is up nearly as high as what I had with the GC. My silicon was also higher this time. I'll double check the air filter fittings to see if anything is loose or mis-assembled. It might also be higher simply because of the higher miles. I think I'll stick to 5k mile intervals for a while. Another thing I noticed is that the PP cST Viscosity @ 100C is 11.16. What is the Viscosity when new? It seems kind of thick. No oil was added and it was about 1/4 qt low when changed. About 1,300 miles of the OCI was towing my travel trailer.

Right now I have Pennzoil Ultra 5W-30 in it. I might run it 5k miles and see how it looks or maybe I won't bother checking it since the real test is summer time when towing. I'm more tempted to go back to the Rotella T5 10W-30 which is a newer formula than what I was using or try the Rotella T6 5W-40.

I didn't see any advantage in the Amsoil filters and have bought 2 Mobil 1 filters for the next 2 OCI's. FZ1 had pointed me to some particle count tests comparing Amsoil and M1 oil filters done by bt anchors which were convincing so I'm giving them a try.

Comments welcome.

Code:


OIL PP 5W-30 RT 10W-30 RT 10W-30 RT 10W-30 GC 0W-30 Valv. 10W-30

MILES IN USE 7.6k 2.6k 5.0k 5.0k 5.6k 4.6k Uni Avg

MILES 142.6k 132.5k 130k 125k 118k 108k

SAMPLE TAKEN 9/7/10 10/17/09 8/20/09 5/15/09 7/28/08 9/2/07



ALUMINUM 7 10 34 7 6 6 4

CHROMIUM 1 1 1 1 1 1 1

IRON 23 11 22 26 19 22 21

COPPER 3 2 4 3 4 5 6

LEAD 29 5 15 10 32 19 9

TIN 0 0 0 3 0 0 2

MOLYBDENUM 42 3 7 8 7 15 65

NICKEL 1 1 1 1 1 1 1

MANGANESE 0 0 0 0 1 0 1

SILVER 0 0 0 0 0 0 0

TITANIUM 0 0 0 0 0 0 0

POTASSIUM 0 6 5 4 2 1 1

BORON 23 19 19 14 5 7 52

SILICON 26 17 18 26 29 94 22

SODIUM 6 3 9 7 7 8 9

CALCIUM 2441 2282 2188 1864 1648 1701 2143

MAGNESIUM 22 20 49 152 526 66 190

PHOSPHORUS 642 960 894 876 868 616 716

ZINC 765 1155 1189 1076 1054 737 854

BARIUM 0 0 0 0 0 2 0





SUS VIS 210ºF 63.4 64.4 69.7 65.6 66.2 59.3

cSt @ 212ºF 11.16 11.45 12.88 11.78 11.95 10.02

FLASHPOINT ºF 400 390 400 385 385 390

FUEL %
ANTIFREEZE % 0.0 0.0 0.0 0 0 0

WATER % 0 0 0 0 0 0

INSOLUBLES % 0.4 0.3 0.3 0.4 0.3 0.3

TBN 2.0 n/a 2.3 2.7 3.6 2.6
 
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Silicon and insoluables are high, and so is wear. Not suprising.

You're tearing the heck out of the engine with dirt ingestion and hard use, but, this is a big, tough, 'old school' V-8 that doesn't seem to mind. It will most likely keep going as long as you want it to!
 
Originally Posted By: addyguy
Silicon and insoluables are high, and so is wear. Not suprising.

You're tearing the heck out of the engine with dirt ingestion and hard use, but, this is a big, tough, 'old school' V-8 that doesn't seem to mind. It will most likely keep going as long as you want it to!


Here is a quote from you 2 UOA's ago.

Originally Posted By: addyguy
I don't know how this engine is still surviving. You lead numbers have always been fairly high, so higher than normal bearing wear has been occuring. Now add to that severe piston wear, and this engine isn't long for this world. You'll either spin a rod bearing or crack a piston one of these days.....


Your prognosis has improved. You sound more optimistic this time. Only time will tell. My guess is that it will go the distance but you never know, anything could happen.
 
HAHAHA...oh man, you got me there!

I know I made a similar comment on your engine last time, but I didn't know I was THAT dire! LOL!

I guess since then, I've come to realize just how tough 'most' engines are, and that even repeatedly 'bad; OUA's don't mean much to actual engine life.
 
Glad you got a chuckle out of it. I find the UOA's part entertainment and part useful. Hopefully I can learn something that will help my engine, educate myself, and have fun at the same time. There isn't much I can do about the car, it is what it is.
 
Check out the 5 quarts of M1 EP including an M1 filter at Autozone for $38. EP seems more durable than the PP in my Honda V6. EP is about the same density as the PP and was more dense than the M1 when I tried 'em out. Hope this helps.
 
After my previous bad UOA's with M1 in 2 different cars (not EP) I'd be hard pressed to try M1 again right away. I'm most seriously considering Rotella T5 10W-30 or T6 5W-40 unless someone comes up with a better idea. Other than the lean running that caused my pistons to wear/burn from nearly running out of gas the previous version of the Rotella T 10W-30 CJ-4 seemed to provide nice wear numbers. My only concern was with winter starting in sub zero conditions.

Does anyone know where to find the spec.'s on the Rotella oils?
 
I had an Izusu that consistently had high iron and lead numbers, labs, Terry predicted doom and gloom on the long term viability of the engine. Lasted several years after I stopped doing the UOA and sold it still running fine. One of the major reasons I stopped wasting my money on UOA, one, regardless of what they say there is not much one can do to alter the future UOA results and two, it really makes no difference, the engine will outlast the rest of the vehicle even with high iron and lead levels. Unless you know from the manufacturer what levels should be normal for a 5000 or 7000 mile run to go 200,000 miles or more whether you get 10 PPM of iron or 50PPM of iron in 7000 miles is pretty much meaningless info
 
Good for you. What a waste,particulary,at $100 a throw. You gotta watch them Texas boys.
 
Originally Posted By: WishIhadatruck
... Other than the lean running that caused my pistons to wear/burn from nearly running out of gas ....

32.gif
Does running low on fuel really affect fuel pressure that significantly? I have noticed, at least in older vehicles, that they require a bit more cranking to start when below a quarter tank or so.

And if so, would that cause lean running? Wouldn't oxygen sensor feedback cause the ECU to compensate with longer injector pulses?

Just wondering.
 
Originally Posted By: BearZDefect
Originally Posted By: WishIhadatruck
... Other than the lean running that caused my pistons to wear/burn from nearly running out of gas ....

32.gif
Does running low on fuel really affect fuel pressure that significantly? I have noticed, at least in older vehicles, that they require a bit more cranking to start when below a quarter tank or so.

And if so, would that cause lean running? Wouldn't oxygen sensor feedback cause the ECU to compensate with longer injector pulses?

Just wondering.


It wasn't just low, as in below a quarter tank, it was low as it pretty much dry. It is a 21 gallon tank and and it took over 21 gallons to fill it. I'm pretty sure the fuel pump was sucking as much air as fuel at the end. It wasn't pumping enough fuel to maintain pressure which I believe resulted in very lean running which then resulted in an overly hot combustion chamber. It might try to give more fuel with longer injector pulses but the fuel just wasn't there. I've only ever run out of gas once in my life and that was long ago in an '88 Buick regal with a FI 2.8L V6. It stumbled and died all at once. This time we were towing a travel trailer getting 7mpg and it stumbled for about 1 mile before we got to the pump. Maybe it was divine intervention we made it to the pump, who knows, it was out of gas.
 
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Thank you for the explanation.

I run my tank very low (up to 60mi past the warning light) on almost every long trip, only problem I've noticed is the longer cranking to restart at such a low level. I've refilled with just over 17 gallons in the 18.5 gallon tank a few times, so never as dry as your situation was.
grin2.gif
 
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