PP, 5w-20, 4,000 miles, 2003 Crown Vic, 4.6 SOHC

[Mud]

Worrisome UOA, can someone please give some additional insight?

Background, I did an initial UOA when I bought the car at 115,000 miles, then just did another UOA at 135,000 miles. 2001-2003 4.6 engines had issues with timing chain guide wear, so my focus was on aluminum and silicon. The guides are made of hard plastic bonded to aluminim.

That first UOA was only a run of 2,000 miles on unknown oil brand, visocity, although the report indicated viscosity at 2K miles indicated 5W-30.

Since I've had the car it has only had PP 5W-20, OCI's at 4-4.5K miles with WIX filters.

I found info that the car had received a dealer timing chain guide fix, but in the UOA below I had asked about thoughts on the guides, thus the comments. I think that the dealer fix was several years ago,

Seems to have taken a downward turn over the last 20K miles, although there are no driving issues, oil usage, etc. Very basic blotter test always shows clean oil.

Comments are appreciated!

Code:
You were interested in aluminum and sodium because of a timing chain guide replacement, but we

don't see the logic there. Iron (from steel parts such as the timing chain and gears that it rides on) and

silicon (possibly from harmless silicone sealers used to reinstall the timing chain cover) both read high. Iron

could also be coming from the steel cylinders and rotating shafts inside the engine, while silicon might be

abrasive dirt contamination. Suggest checking the plumbing of the engine air filtration system for leaks to

know for sure. We'll have more information next time.

Code:


MI/HR on Oil 4,000 2,000

MI/HR on Unit 135,000 115,270

Make Up Oil Added 0 0

UNIT AVERAGES

ALUMINUM 4 14 2

CHROMIUM 1 1 0

IRON 35 20 5

COPPER 6 6 2

LEAD 0 0 0

TIN 2 1 1

MOLYBDENUM 50 63 126

NICKEL 1 1 0

MANGANESE 1 1 0

SILVER 0 0 0

TITANIUM 0 0 0

POTASSIUM 1 2 1

BORON 10 29 77

SILICON 24 80 8

SODIUM 5 107 125

CALCIUM 2218 2403 2295

MAGNESIUM 12 11 12

PHOSPHORUS 676 693 699

ZINC 743 791 830

BARIUM 0 0 0



SUS Viscosity @ 210°F 50.3 46-59 55.0

cSt Viscosity @ 100C 7.35 6.0-10.2 8.76

Flashpoint in °F 405 >355 385

Fuel %
Antifreeze % 0.0 0.0 0.0

Water % 0.0
Insolubles % 0.4

 

[Rand]

sodium is most likely from oil additive pack of another oil?

silicon looks high. Check for intake leaks from air filter back.

try replacing filter with a motorcraft they seal better.

Iron seems high but not crazy high.. Maybe try 5w30 or a different brand oil.

 

[chubbs1]

I would not really be that worried, the engine has 135k on it and all other metals are in pretty good shape. I would use a cheaper oil (conventional) PEAK, Havoline, PYB, QS, GTX, etc. and continue to change out at 4k intervals. Ride that baby 'til it won't ride no more. I bet you have a lot more miles left. Diagnosing and trying to fix anything would probably be cost prohibitive.


Rest easier,

Matt

 

[LeakySeals]

So if I read this right this was the third PP OC at the time of this UOA? Any debris from prior oils should be cleaned out by now unless its a dirty engine. A switchover to synthetic can show high #s initially. Whats great about a UOA is your engine gets a chance to tell you that maybe it doesnt like PP.

 

[Mud]

Thanks for the common-sense approach

I have to say I baby these cars maintenance-wise and this got me worried.

Game plan is to switch to PYB. I have it in both 5W-20 and 5W-30 and planned to blend them. No reason other than to use them together until the 5W-20 is used up.

Yes this was 3rd or 4th PP OCI, but regardless, yes any prior oils would be cleaned out by now. For follow up UOA, when would you suggest? After a second run with the PYB?

On the filter, I assume you are referencing the air filter? I was talking about the oil filter, air filters in use are Fram, replaced every 10-12K. However, I will double check the airbox/sealing. I didn't see anything past the air box that was loose or leaking when I checked.

thank you!

 

[LeakySeals]

You can look at it 2 ways. Waiting 2 oil changes will give you more accurate #'s for that oil. The flip side is if the oil wasnt a good choice (hypo) there were more miles put on, more potential wear or damage occurred. So it comes down to money and the need to know. On the very first run of PYB would expect #'s to trend in another direction. Subsequent UOA lower (or higher) again, etc.

Whats wrong with the motorcraft syn oil? Heard its a good match for that engine.

 

[Mud]

Didn't mean to slight MC, M1 Super, QS, etc at all.
I only picked PYB since I have more of it. Thanks to BITOG I have about 120 qts stashed of varying brands, all of it bought at decent sales prices lol, including MC semi-synth.
I have no qualms about changing brands

I think I may go ahead and do another UOA at the end of the next run on the oil just to get a sense of which way the readings are trending.

thanks

 

[ltslimjim]

As others have encouraged, try to get the Silicon(Si) down by reviewing all possible POST air filter entry of dirt. Get a good filter and make sure it seals well, Motorcraft OE seem to be plenty good enough. Probably can be purchased on Amazon or RockAuto if you don't go by a dealership by choice or don't have the option, etc.

Not 'bad', but I 'suppose' worst case 'might' be varnish on your timing chain and/or the previous repair related to 'some' elevated wear on the timing chain itself.

Can you remove the top access to the timing chain, crank the engine by hand and look at all parts of the chain? IIRC, timing chains that get really varnished and a 'layer' of deposits might wear irregular.

 

[Colt45ws]

Some ideas:
I dont know which intake tube you have, but I had the Town Car dual resonator unit on my car originally. I found that it was leaking outside air from one of the resonator connections. I trashed it for a police resonator-less unit.
I also found I was leaking air at the connection to the PCV. I RTV'd the tube to it.
My silicon dropped off sharply after these changes.

 

[Mud]

Intake tube is the one without any resonators. All TB and plenum gaskets were changed as part of TB removal/cleaning when I first bought the car. However, advice well taken here, I will thoroughly check any and all connections, vacuum lines, etc.

I had mentioned that the plan was to switch to PYB but I remembered that when I took the sample of PP, the fresh fill I used was Valvoline conventional 5W-20. So that's what's in the car now, next change will be to PYB. I don't mind taking another sample of the Valvoline at next change just to see what the levels are doing.

I've done timing chain repairs before on the 4.6 and its not that easy to gain access, even for a look. At the very least, you have to pull up a valve cover to see one of the chains. I'm a bit doubtful of varnish, looking into the fill hole at the cams/actuators areas, it's very clean. I know when the timing guide replacement happened on my 2002 CV because I did it. On this 2003, all I have are the common marks that the dealers would put on the face of the valve covers indicating TSB repairs. So I don't know how long ago the repairs were made.

 

[Jarlaxle]

Can a dealer pull an OASIS report and tell you when the TC repair was done?

 

[Boss302fan]

Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
Can a dealer pull an OASIS report and tell you when the TC repair was done?


Yes they can, but only if a Ford dealer did the repair.

 

[Colt45ws]

btw, looking at it again, I have to guess the silicon is getting into the engine via the PCV system and bypassing the cylinders. I say this because if it was going though the cylinders, Chromium would be higher. Also, Tin and Copper and Aluminium are a bit higher than the averages, which are from the bearings.

 

[Jarlaxle]

Originally Posted By: Boss302fan
Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
Can a dealer pull an OASIS report and tell you when the TC repair was done?


Yes they can, but only if a Ford dealer did the repair.


From the pic, isn't that cam cover mark what a dealer does when he does the TSB fix?

 

[demarpaint]

You say you remove the TB to do cleaning? Make sure you're not leaking vacuum at the TB.

 

[Mud]

More info: I did get the OASIS report on the car before I bought it, but did not see anything about timing chain repairs or info related to any TSB's. However the car had an extended 100K warranty and was in excellent condition. Those valve cover marks are always identified as related to timing tensioner repairs so I guess unless I pull the cover it will always be an assumption. I do plan to go by a local Ford dealer and ask them to run the VIN though.

One reason I did the first UOA on the 2003 (115K miles) was to look at aluminum levels in particular. The tensioners are aluminum with plastic guides bonded to the aluminum. When my 2002 had tensioner issues, the engine was dead quiet but the alum and silicon levels were sky-high. After tensioner replacement, the very next oil fill and UAO showed levels back down to normal.

Here's a pic of the tensioners that were replaced on the 2002, as you can see one of them was starting to wear into the aluminum.

The initial UOA on the 2003 showed normal levels of everything, but the latest one just 20K miles later shows all sorts of elevated levels of metals

When I brought the 2003 home, I went over it front to back and also removed/cleaned the TB and installed new gaskets at plenum and TB as well. I can't find any obvious loose hoses, etc. but I will R&R the TB and replace the PCV valve as well just to ensure that all is ok with them.

I think I will also do an UOA on this Valvoline oil fill, I will run it about 4500 miles. I'm not panicking and looking for another engine lol but I am concerned at the changes in what seems to be minimal miles between UOA's. As mentioned, the engine runs perfectly, I wish our newer cars ran this smoothly.

Thank you all for your input and advice, I really appreciate it.

 

[steve20]

maybe a switch back to 5-30 in this particular engine would make it happier

 

[Mud]

I'm starting to think that as well. My 2002 has always had 5W-30 dino with very good UOA's....