Porsche Cayman "Tiptronic" Auto, what fluid ???

[fafnir]

car is a 2007 porsche cayman with the tiptronic automatic transmission, same autobox occurs in both the audi s8/a8 w12 and the vw phaeton,

gearbox has a groaning noise at low rpms on 3rd and 4th gear when under load

the exact sorta groaning noise you hear when any modern auto is low on fluid or needs new fluid

i don't really want to pay 30 bucks a quart for some rip off rebranded "porsche" fluid

so will redline d6 or amsoil or whatever other synthetic fluid do?

and also, can i reuse the transmission pan gasket?

thanks for the time



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[G-MAN]

What fluid does Porsche recommend and what are its specs?

Asking if Amsoil can be used is axiomatic since they recommend their fluid for every application under the sun.

 

[Ken42]

Should you not have a warranty? Take it in.

 

[Pablo]

ken42 has you covered. Take it in under warranty. Why should you pay?

Yes Amsoil has said they are good for Porsche part no. 999 917 547 00.

Not sure why G-man posted. If Amsoil is not good for an application, they say so.

 

[Steve S]

Quote:

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Should you not have a warranty? Take it in.

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Should have a warranty I would say oil is not the problem and Porsche parts are expensive unless you can find the pares from the manufacture but still bring it in for what they charge to buy one they should bend over backwards to keep you happy. How can you complain about the price when you bought the car. My Dad used to tell me that as he was correct.

 

[fafnir]

i can't believe you guys trust the dealers that much,

that groaning noise in the gearbox, all the local dealers swear its nothing to be worried about and that its "within spec"

which sounds like ____

i'm sure if this particular transmission was low on fluid it would still run fine for a good 40-50k miles, due to how overbuilt it is, as on this particular car, its got a total of three external oil coolers with two of them also cooling the transmission fluid also and the last one being a liquid to liquid exchange loop, right, its going to last a while

and then explode and disintegrate into little pieces while pooing out black sludge that used to be some sort of red liquid bottled as "porsche atf fluid"

exactly 1 mile after the warranty expires, and take my engine with it and lock only the front left wheel solid right when i'm trying to pass another car on a coastal road along a cliff at just over the speed limit


look, i'm used to working on my own cars and even if i bought the car, i still know when i'm being ripped off for no reason

i'll pay insane money for vaporware or even get flat out scammed for a bunch of plain stupid stuff, but i'm not going to walk into something that i know is just plain wrong to begin with


just like those VW guys that say that you shouldn't ever change the transmission oil filter and that the fluid lasts a lifetime


but thanks everyone for the time, i'm going to try some amsoil pretty soon since Pablo has confirmed that amsoil and 999 917 547 00 are compatible

anyone tried redline d6 yet?

and besides, if the stuff doesn't work out i'll just flush the system and try again


thanks again



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[Titan]

For a long time, AmSoil said they did not have an ATF for my two Subaru, and stated so, no "ifs", "ands", or "buts". Simply stated that there were no recommended AmSoil fluids for my applications. However, last month they finally got around to testing for compatability with the Subaru, and NOW they have a recommendation. I know lots of people have a bias against AmSoil, I was one of those...personally, it was because too many "dealers" are simply trying to make money off of selling the product, and they make mistakes in presentation or factual statements. This is understandable, because you don't have to be trained in Lubrication Sciences in order to be a dealer. However, the excellent performance of the various fluids from AmSoil which I've tried have convinced me that they make some truly fantastic products. Informative posts by Pablo and some others, as well as an attempt at transparency combined with honesty, certainly lends more credibility to the product line, but, in the end, it's performance that counts...and I've never had a poor performing fluid from AmSoil. If it's recommended by AmSoil for a certain application, I'd be confident to use it for that application.

 

[fafnir]

_


turns out the ATF was the problem

http://www.caymanclub.net/reviews/data/10/large/IMG_0598.jpg

http://www.photo-host.org/thumb/370442img_0595.jpg

http://www.caymanclub.net/reviews/data/10/large/IMG_0578.jpg


also figured out what the stuff is: ESSO LT 71141

sent samples of the stuff to a place that analyzes crude oil and refined oil and compared against esso and its identical, what a rip off that they want $20 per liter at wholesale and the minimum buy was 20 liters (one container)

replaced with redline D6 and the whole car just simply shifts smoother in a way i can't begin to describe




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[bamorris2]

Man, that looks more like motor oil than ATF. Yuck!

 

[MarioT]

Quote:

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Man, that looks more like motor oil than ATF. Yuck!

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I've got a GM car with a ZF Transmission that uses ESSO LT 71141.

Dealer charges a reasonable 9$/L, no minimum quantity. But he warned me specifically (while showing me the notice on the bottle), that the ATF oil is the same color as Motor oil. Plus that I shouldn't panic if the oil coming out was yellow instead.

To me it is still too soon to change it (hey its supposed to be lifetime

). But as soon as it gets to 30kmiles, I'll see to it.

 

[unDummy]

Did you do a flush? or just the pan drop? So, has the moaning/groaning been eliminated with the new ATF?
What engine? how many miles on it?
Did you UOA the old fluid? Post it in the ATF UOA section.

Install a drainplug to make future maintenance easier and quicker.

I trust dealers when I can get them to fix something under warranty. When they say everything is in spec', that usually means they don't have a clue. And yes, even the higher end dealers can be clueless and untrusty too.

If you search for the 71141 here, you'll find many debates concerning it. I myself would've used D4 or the Ams. There are various other multivehicle/universal blended and full synth ATFs that can be used.

 

[BGK]

Isn't it important for the trans fluid used to meet or exceed the fluid spec that is recommended by the vehicle mfg? Does Redline say their fluid meets the Porsche specs?

 

[unDummy]

Does Porsche say that it doesn't?

Redline D4 can be used in place of '71141'.

If an OEM spec is pathetic, and is simply required by their supplier for 'increase fluid profit sales', why use an inferior OEM fluid?

 

[Whitewolf]

Has Redline proved that their fluid even meets the requirements never mind exceed them? I suspect that the answer is no. What is your problem with OEMs and their recommended fluids?

 

[Pablo]

Quote:

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What is your problem with OEMs and their recommended fluids?

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Because, basically, there is nothing magic about an OEM "meets" fluids.

First let me start by complimenting GM on their automatic transmissions. They are some of the finest, since the 1960's. They certainly didn't have the issues of Chrysler, Honda, Ford or even some of the Euro AT's. And the reason for saying that - is these same companies that came out with some really poor AT's were the same companies recommending the (OEM) fluid. And even a new fluid or two to fix design issues.... this is not said to cast stones, but it's out there that the best solutions do not come from OEM.

I think this Porsche example is prime. Obviously something is amiss. It's hard to say over the 'net if it's a design or manufacture problem - OR an OEM fluid problem - but the original poster changed fluid and violá - problem fixed!

Again - step back and allow the secondary market to make it better or do it top notch out of the gate. Right now my money is on the better fluid.

 

[Win]

I have no idea what a TipTronic is, but I would put whatever they recommend in it rather than a universal replacement.

The ZF 6HP26 in the wife's Jag uses Mercon SP which I think is the same Esso ATF LT71141 you referenced. I asked the selling dealer to change it out for me at its first 10K mile service and they did it free. I would think a Porsche dealer would do the same, given the price of the car.

 

[BullyT]

Quote:

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Has Redline proved that their fluid even meets the requirements never mind exceed them? I suspect that the answer is no. What is your problem with OEMs and their recommended fluids?

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Well, in my last 2 GM products the transmission went at 85,000 km (55,000 miles) and 150,000 km (90,000 miles) respectively. Repair/replacement in each case approx. $2,000. The transmission in my Ford Explorer also gave up around 150,000 km. In my BMW 740iL, the tranny is fine at 120,000 but for the next fluid change I will be going with Amsoil universal ATF. I've researched this extensively, and have yet to find a single person who has had a problem with Amsoil ATF. More often than not, the reports are improved shifting performance

 

[fafnir]

no, the shop didn't have a flush machine so i didn't do a flush, did the pan drop and then drained and filled again, so diluted at best

yes, the groaning has been eliminated on the 4th gear, and significantly better at 3rd (still hear a tiny bit, but not anywhere near as loud as before)

i decided on redline D6 because i had a good experience with D4 in another car before, so i figured D6 should do, also, redline says that the D6 meets or exceeds the esso lt 71141

and from the fluid analysis the grey/brown/black sludge floating in the fluid was mostly clutch material with minor metallic content, and no metal shavings at all

also, there's only 5000 miles on the vehicle, its a model year 2007, so this should really NOT be happening

which if i did listen to the porsche dealer, maybe i'll have a replacement transmission soon, maybe i won't, but whichever possibility, i will at least be out of a lot more money and out my car for a really long time while i wait for a possibly free transmission assuming if warranty goes through

and seriously, maybe i will have a different result with amsoil, maybe better, maybe worse, but whatever fluid i end up using, there is no denying at all that the fluid in the transmission is already messed up at 5000 miles, no way it'll last until 80,000 miles,

and no matter what i were to replace it with, it'll be a significant improvement over the sludge, and from my current experience, redline D6 was a significant improvement over the esso stuff

Quote:

---

Did you do a flush? or just the pan drop? So, has the moaning/groaning been eliminated with the new ATF?
What engine? how many miles on it?
Did you UOA the old fluid? Post it in the ATF UOA section.

Install a drainplug to make future maintenance easier and quicker.

I trust dealers when I can get them to fix something under warranty. When they say everything is in spec', that usually means they don't have a clue. And yes, even the higher end dealers can be clueless and untrusty too.

If you search for the 71141 here, you'll find many debates concerning it. I myself would've used D4 or the Ams. There are various other multivehicle/universal blended and full synth ATFs that can be used.

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