Poor shifter design causing accidents

[bdcardinal]

Originally Posted By: HighViscosity
I think the cell phone was the downfall of the manual transmission.


Yup, hard to talk on the phone when you have to use both feet on the pedals, one hand on the wheel, and one on the shifter.

 

[Kiwi_ME]

It's disappointing that so many here are quick to blame "stupidity." There is very likely an ergonomic design issue and we should be more concerned about discussing the cause rather than thinking we're smarter than everyone affected.

My own car, a VW with 7-speed DSG has a quirk where if you put the handbrake on while in drive or reverse, then remove your foot from the brake, it holds still just like a conventional automatic, giving you a sense that the handbrake is effective.

But several seconds later the transmission will suddenly overcome the handbrake and drive away slowly. It's a feature to make it simple to start off on a hill but oddly does not sense either that the handbrake is applied, nor if you happen to open the door.

I'm all about standardisation of controls. All cars should have the similar controls and respond the same way.

 

[gathermewool]

Originally Posted By: Nate1979
Originally Posted By: Olas
Originally Posted By: ammolab
Originally Posted By: bdcardinal
Have the owners never heard of a parking brake?


Just the drivers that never drove a manual...OH, that's 96% of today's drivers!


That means 4% of us have a special skill set


If by special skill set you mean a skill that can be taught in a few minutes but that no one cares about any more then yes you are special.
Originally Posted By: Kiwi_ME
It's disappointing that so many here are quick to blame "stupidity." There is very likely an ergonomic design issue and we should be more concerned about discussing the cause rather than thinking we're smarter than everyone affected.

My own car, a VW with 7-speed DSG has a quirk where if you put the handbrake on while in drive or reverse, then remove your foot from the brake, it holds still just like a conventional automatic, giving you a sense that the handbrake is effective.

But several seconds later the transmission will suddenly overcome the handbrake and drive away slowly. It's a feature to make it simple to start off on a hill but oddly does not sense either that the handbrake is applied, nor if you happen to open the door.

I'm all about standardisation of controls. All cars should have the similar controls and respond the same way.


They're so dumb, we're so smart and special!

 

[HighViscosity]

I've heard that people who reside in areas where "New" is part of the name are indeed a cut above. You may have more mental blessings from the lord, but some may consider it poor taste to boast about it.

Sadly, there is no New Cincinnati, so I must be content with myself.

Survival of the fittest implies that those less fit may not survive. I think it is our human obligation to see that every breathing biped can pass their genes on at will. I recently invented a sign to place near swimming pools reminding people to hold their breath. We all can make a difference.

 

[GMBoy]

Originally Posted By: dishdude
I have this shifter in my Jeep, and I am on the fence about it. It has detents to mimic a mechanical shifter to help you select gears without looking, and it also displays what gear you are in on the shifter and on the gauge cluster. A couple times I haven't pushed/pulled far enough and wound up in R or N when I was shooting for P or D.




Same here. Wife has a new Grand Cherokee Overland and the shifter works fine but I've goofed a couple of times like you mentioned myself.

 

[KD0AXS]

Luckily, my wife doesn't have to worry about this while driving her Jeep.

 

[HighViscosity]

Dang....... you been served (to use the parlance of our time).

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: xxch4osxx
My Ram has the old style column shifter for putting it in drive reverse etc. Glad they still made them available in the 2015 models. Never forgot to put it in park, ever.


My '14 was the last year of the NAG1 with the "regular" shifter. The '15 got the knob to go with the new tranny.

 

[Alfred_B]

In my Audi, you cannot shut off the engine if the car is in the drive settings. Only in N or P.

The main reason why I think people may forget to put the car in P and turn off is that the interiors are very quiet. If you are in a hurry and forget to shift to P, you may press the off button and leave and not even realize that the car is running.

I know I have tried to start the car a few times while the engine was running. Never left the car with the shifter in D or R but I can see the possibility of it happening.

 

[xxch4osxx]

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: xxch4osxx
My Ram has the old style column shifter for putting it in drive reverse etc. Glad they still made them available in the 2015 models. Never forgot to put it in park, ever.


My '14 was the last year of the NAG1 with the "regular" shifter. The '15 got the knob to go with the new tranny.
Is that the round turn style like the heater/ air conditioning controls?

 

[DoubleWasp]

Sounds more like poor human design is causing accidents.

Anyone making these claims should have their license revoked.

It's the driver's job to make sure the machine is being operated correctly. Not the other way around.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: Alfred_B
The main reason why I think people may forget to put the car in P and turn off is that the interiors are very quiet. If you are in a hurry and forget to shift to P, you may press the off button and leave and not even realize that the car is running.

And auto start-stop systems on many new cars make it even worse. The engine may turn itself off when you come to a complete stop.

 

[hattaresguy]

Originally Posted By: 440Magnum
Originally Posted By: Reddy45
Is this another case of people being incompetent drivers? I still can't believe that the whole Toyota floor mat accelerator incident made national headlines.


Except it wasn't really floormats, it was bad software. Didn't come out until the civil suits and the press pretty much ignored the final answer, but the facts are out there.

http://www.edn.com/design/automotive/442...ts-consequences

Full disclosure: I think this is mostly idiots and settlement-seekers because the shifter is pretty intuitive and simple, but I dislike the FCA shifter in question and I hate the rotary-knob version even more, and I hate the "gated" automatic shifters of prior years even more. One of the few decent things Ralph Nader ever did was force a standardization of gear-selector patterns back in the 60s. Chrysler had pushbuttons, Ford had "PRNDL" and GM had "PNDLR" (and others, depending on if you had a Hydramatic, Dynaflow, Powerglide, or TurboHydraMatic under the floor). It was a little out of hand, particularly "PNDLR" versus "PRNDL", and the standardization worked nicely for 50 years... then we get electronic transmissions and the lessons of the past are forgotten, starting with BMW's ridiculous "one knob does everything if you can possibly remember just how to twist and tilt it" to the Prius' "push the lever forward to go forward instead of pulling it back into 'drive' like we're used to," and the FCA shifters already mentioned. Standardization is a GOOD thing when it comes to basic controls. If you can move the shift lever functions arbitrarily, why not put the brake pedal on the right and the accelerator on the left while you're at it? \







I agree, if you look at how GM did it on the Silverado with their 8spd, regular column shifter, far better than the FCA knob.

You can jump from a 1986 Chevy into a 2016 and the E brake and shifter is identical, which IMHO is a good thing.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: xxch4osxx
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: xxch4osxx
My Ram has the old style column shifter for putting it in drive reverse etc. Glad they still made them available in the 2015 models. Never forgot to put it in park, ever.


My '14 was the last year of the NAG1 with the "regular" shifter. The '15 got the knob to go with the new tranny.
Is that the round turn style like the heater/ air conditioning controls?


I had a moment apparently and was thinking of the 300, the Charger got the funky one similar to the Jeep:

This is the 300's shifter:

 

[Nate1979]

Originally Posted By: hattaresguy
Originally Posted By: 440Magnum
Originally Posted By: Reddy45
Is this another case of people being incompetent drivers? I still can't believe that the whole Toyota floor mat accelerator incident made national headlines.


Except it wasn't really floormats, it was bad software. Didn't come out until the civil suits and the press pretty much ignored the final answer, but the facts are out there.

http://www.edn.com/design/automotive/442...ts-consequences

Full disclosure: I think this is mostly idiots and settlement-seekers because the shifter is pretty intuitive and simple, but I dislike the FCA shifter in question and I hate the rotary-knob version even more, and I hate the "gated" automatic shifters of prior years even more. One of the few decent things Ralph Nader ever did was force a standardization of gear-selector patterns back in the 60s. Chrysler had pushbuttons, Ford had "PRNDL" and GM had "PNDLR" (and others, depending on if you had a Hydramatic, Dynaflow, Powerglide, or TurboHydraMatic under the floor). It was a little out of hand, particularly "PNDLR" versus "PRNDL", and the standardization worked nicely for 50 years... then we get electronic transmissions and the lessons of the past are forgotten, starting with BMW's ridiculous "one knob does everything if you can possibly remember just how to twist and tilt it" to the Prius' "push the lever forward to go forward instead of pulling it back into 'drive' like we're used to," and the FCA shifters already mentioned. Standardization is a GOOD thing when it comes to basic controls. If you can move the shift lever functions arbitrarily, why not put the brake pedal on the right and the accelerator on the left while you're at it? \







I agree, if you look at how GM did it on the Silverado with their 8spd, regular column shifter, far better than the FCA knob.

You can jump from a 1986 Chevy into a 2016 and the E brake and shifter is identical, which IMHO is a good thing.


The problem with the shifter in my GMC Sierra is it sticks in front of the HVAC and radio controls. You have to reach around it to change anything.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
This is the 300's shifter:

Seems like everyone is loving the knob these days.

Here is Ford's version...

 

[SteveSRT8]

We love the rotary shift knob in the RAM we have. It's the epitome of convenience.

I can see the confusion though, as I have cars with floor shifters, trucks with column shifters, etc. Many times I have reached around the RAM steering wheel looking for a column shift...

 

[dishdude]

I did a little experimentation and to clear up a few things in this thread, the car stays in drive if the door is opened and displays a warning message in the cluster along with a loud chime. If I try to turn the car off while still in gear, I get the same message and loud chime. Conclusion - only a moron could screw this up.

 

[Olas]

Originally Posted By: Miller88
Originally Posted By: Olas
Three pedals, one gearstick and one handbrake lever.

K.I.S.S!!


I prefer 4 pedals!


What does the 4th one do?

 

[supton]

Originally Posted By: Olas
Originally Posted By: Miller88
Originally Posted By: Olas
Three pedals, one gearstick and one handbrake lever.

K.I.S.S!!


I prefer 4 pedals!


What does the 4th one do?


Model T with the throttle moved to the floor? Or tractor-like setup where there are two brake pedals, presumably unlike a tractor, here it'd be front/rear brakes. That could be fun.