Poor Hybrid sales threaten 2025 CAFE targets

[emg]

Originally Posted By: Cujet
I drive an S2000 convertible. It's responsive, fun and simple. I can't imagine what would happen to the price of this type of car when it has to meet absurd MPG requirements.


One of the few benefits of electric cars is that, by 2025, you'll probably be able to 3D print whatever car you want, and stick some batteries and electric motors in it. There are already a few around, but hardly sporty.

 

[supton]

Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
If saving money is the objective...the Prius fails. Offhand, I have seen Mirages (37/44MPG) advertised for $11K. $5800 buys LOTS of gas.


Heh, I, just for fun, took a quick look at this car (online of course), then showed a pic to my wife. Her thought was, eww, a Mitsubishi? I pointed out the (supposed) 10k cost and her reaction changed immediately.

I' rather be a Toyota snob but at 10k I could be easily tempted. That is pure appliance territory right there. Drive until a repair cost hits $1k, buy a new one.

 

[lovcom]

Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
If saving money is the objective...the Prius fails. Offhand, I have seen Mirages (37/44MPG) advertised for $11K. $5800 buys LOTS of gas.


Not true.

A Prius C beats that junk Mitsubishi in city by 16+ MPG, and highwy by 12+ MPG.

Additionally, the Prius line is the most dependable cars made in the world, and history of cars.

For another $6,000 the smarter set would bypass the inferior Mitsubishi and go for the Toyota.

Mitsubishi has a HORRIBLE repulation for quality, and reliability in the USA, and the world.

 

[Shrubitup]

Originally Posted By: lovcom
Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
If saving money is the objective...the Prius fails. Offhand, I have seen Mirages (37/44MPG) advertised for $11K. $5800 buys LOTS of gas.



Additionally, the Prius line is the most dependable cars made in the world, and history of cars.

For another $6,000 the smarter set would bypass the inferior Mitsubishi and go for the Toyota.

Mitsubishi has a HORRIBLE reputation for quality, and reliability in the USA, and the world.


This site doesn't support what I quoted above. Doesn't proclaim it's a Toyota/Honda tho.

http://tradeinqualityindex.com/reports/Mitsubishi.html

 

[Jarlaxle]

Originally Posted By: lovcom
Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
If saving money is the objective...the Prius fails. Offhand, I have seen Mirages (37/44MPG) advertised for $11K. $5800 buys LOTS of gas.


Not true.

A Prius C beats that junk Mitsubishi in city by 16+ MPG, and highwy by 12+ MPG.

Additionally, the Prius line is the most dependable cars made in the world, and history of cars.

For another $6,000 the smarter set would bypass the inferior Mitsubishi and go for the Toyota.

Mitsubishi has a HORRIBLE repulation for quality, and reliability in the USA, and the world.


Describe in detail YOUR bad experience with Mitsubishi. Be specific.

And again: $5800 buys a LOT of gas!

 

[DoubleWasp]

One day the hybrid pushers are going to wake up an realize that many people need and want more than a small box for urban commuting.

 

[HangFire]

The purchase price of a Prius is so high it takes 2 vehicle lifetimes of driving (400K miles) just to break even on gasoline versus a Corolla. And that's just the break-even point, to "save money" you have to drive it a significant number of miles past 400K.

If you want to talk about fuel economy you might as well talk about total cost of ownership. While the Prius is very reliable it's still no luxury car, I'd hate to sentence myself to 500K miles of driving one just to "save money" on gas. I'd rather buy a new Corolla every 250K miles and enjoy the warranty and reliability of a newer vehicle along the way.

 

[lovcom]

Originally Posted By: HangFire
The purchase price of a Prius is so high it takes 2 vehicle lifetimes of driving (400K miles) just to break even on gasoline versus a Corolla. And that's just the break-even point, to "save money" you have to drive it a significant number of miles past 400K.

If you want to talk about fuel economy you might as well talk about total cost of ownership. While the Prius is very reliable it's still no luxury car, I'd hate to sentence myself to 500K miles of driving one just to "save money" on gas. I'd rather buy a new Corolla every 250K miles and enjoy the warranty and reliability of a newer vehicle along the way.


Your argument has not been true in many years now. Where have you been?!?

You can get a Prius C base for $17,000 or even less if you bargain hard.

Additionally, the Prius is the most reliable car tht Toyota makes, making it more reliable than the Corolla. And the luxury that one can get from a Prius is THE SAME as what one can get in a Corolla.

You are not informed.

 

[lovcom]

Originally Posted By: DoubleWasp
One day the hybrid pushers are going to wake up an realize that many people need and want more than a small box for urban commuting.


When are the gas-only owners going to realize that Hybrids come IN THE SAME SIZE as nearly all other cars?!?

And the price differences are NEGLIGIBLE, making ROI come VERY QUICKLY.

The Prius V is fairly large, and is great for families. There are even bigger hybrids too.

 

[lovcom]

Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
Originally Posted By: lovcom
Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
If saving money is the objective...the Prius fails. Offhand, I have seen Mirages (37/44MPG) advertised for $11K. $5800 buys LOTS of gas.


Not true.

A Prius C beats that junk Mitsubishi in city by 16+ MPG, and highwy by 12+ MPG.

Additionally, the Prius line is the most dependable cars made in the world, and history of cars.

For another $6,000 the smarter set would bypass the inferior Mitsubishi and go for the Toyota.

Mitsubishi has a HORRIBLE repulation for quality, and reliability in the USA, and the world.


Describe in detail YOUR bad experience with Mitsubishi. Be specific.

And again: $5800 buys a LOT of gas!


Just one Mitsubishi, you want me to comment on?

How about THOUSANDS, per ConsumerReports? They rate the Mitsubishi brand as junk. And the sales or lack there of bare this out. Hello?!?

 

[KrisZ]

Originally Posted By: lovcom


The Prius V is fairly large, and is great for families. There are even bigger hybrids too.



This is what I am considering or the Sprtwagen TDI. When these family wagons have the same or bigger room inside and cargo than most CUVs at twice the gas mileage, I take notice.
As with everything, not everybody will see the benefits of hybrids or diesels, that doesn't make them bad.

 

[HangFire]

Originally Posted By: lovcom
Your argument has not been true in many years now. Where have you been?!?

You can get a Prius C base for $17,000 or even less if you bargain hard.


I have been in a land where people do not commute 40+K/year in a "city car", which is also the same place that finding a bare-bones Toyota at the lowest list price is just a pipe dream.

 

[DoubleWasp]

Originally Posted By: lovcom
Originally Posted By: DoubleWasp
One day the hybrid pushers are going to wake up an realize that many people need and want more than a small box for urban commuting.


When are the gas-only owners going to realize that Hybrids come IN THE SAME SIZE as nearly all other cars?!?

And the price differences are NEGLIGIBLE, making ROI come VERY QUICKLY.

The Prius V is fairly large, and is great for families. There are even bigger hybrids too.


Point me to a Hybrid that will tow my 33' boat.

 

[SteveSRT8]

^^^He likely won't!

Likewise my 33 foot 5th wheel camper rig. Not for everyone, that's for sure.

Hey, it's a choice. Nothing wrong with choices. Just don't try and make these universal recommendations like everyone who is in the "smarter set" drives a Pious...

 

[CT8]

Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
^^^He likely won't!

Likewise my 33 foot 5th wheel camper rig. Not for everyone, that's for sure.

Hey, it's a choice. Nothing wrong with choices. Just don't try and make these universal recommendations like everyone who is in the "smarter set" drives a Pious...
Hybrid 33ft. camper?

 

[surfstar]

Originally Posted By: DoubleWasp
Originally Posted By: lovcom
Originally Posted By: DoubleWasp
One day the hybrid pushers are going to wake up an realize that many people need and want more than a small box for urban commuting.


When are the gas-only owners going to realize that Hybrids come IN THE SAME SIZE as nearly all other cars?!?

And the price differences are NEGLIGIBLE, making ROI come VERY QUICKLY.

The Prius V is fairly large, and is great for families. There are even bigger hybrids too.


Point me to a Hybrid that will tow my 33' boat.


Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
^^^He likely won't!

Likewise my 33 foot 5th wheel camper rig. Not for everyone, that's for sure.

Hey, it's a choice. Nothing wrong with choices. Just don't try and make these universal recommendations like everyone who is in the "smarter set" drives a Pious...


Do you guys tow your 33' things every day commuting to work?

Sure, have (or rent) a big truck when you need it. Don't drive it everyday when its not needed. Although some people like to look cool and/or make up for something.

Right tool for the job. The Pious drivers just use more reasoning vs emotion when choosing what their daily driver should be.

But hey, "its a free country", so I know you have your right to drive a gas gassler, support the middle east (this was true for decades, shale oil has changed it now), put more pollutants in the air we all breathe, etc. Some people think about what their actions will do to others and the environment. Some think about it, then say "f&ck it".

 

[DoubleWasp]

No. I tow even larger vessels on a daily basis.

I'd do better renting a hybrid when I don't need my truck than vice versa, but then I run the gambit that if my guys need assistance in the field, I arrive in a compact with inadequate tools, no fuel tanks, no Winch, no compressed air supply, no Jacks, and no ability to take over a trailer from them if their rig is unable to continue on.

Today, I found myself dragging 3 boats, 6+ tons, up a steep algae covered grade.

Hybrids are very good for some people. My neighbor loves her Prius V, but they're a long way from filling all of the gaps.

 

[supton]

I would not mind a hybrid, but for my pure highway commute, you would think a simple 1L mill coupled to a six speed manual would crank out the mpg's. Add four doors and it would be fine--leaving my truck to be lightly used on the weekends.

Have to say, I would missing rowing through the gears. I have been looking at simple cars lately, and I might prefer... a simple car. Knobs for temp control etc. A simple car leaves lots of money for gas...

I know there are hybrids that will tow my camper but would the loss in mpg on a daily basis make up for that? I plan to tow at random times, and it is at least 35 miles to anyplace that rents vehicles.

 

[Nayov]

Originally Posted By: DoubleWasp

Point me to a Hybrid that will tow my 33' boat.

Escalade. Denali.

 

[Jarlaxle]

Originally Posted By: lovcom


Just one Mitsubishi, you want me to comment on?

How about THOUSANDS, per ConsumerReports? They rate the Mitsubishi brand as junk. And the sales or lack there of bare this out. Hello?!?


Describe in detail YOUR bad experience with Mitsubishi. Be specific.

Stop trolling and be honest!

CR has had a very large GIGO problem for a very long time.