Plug and Play Home Solar coming to the USA

[alarmguy]

Im looking forward to this. (I'm almost positive)
Some time back I posted in this forum the desire for just a couple panels that could be mounted to SUPPLEMENT power to our home when the sun shines. I posted about this for a fun project. I in no way wanted a big bunch of panels and the associated cost. I would never re-coup the cost.

Anyway, little did I know what I want always existed overseas. 4 panels, 1200 watts complete with inverter and all you do is plug an electric cord into an electric plug in your home.

Very cool, Im not concerned per se' about saving some huge amount of money on my electric but it would be cool on sunny days to have fun watching the sun pump some electricity into the house that I dont pay for. Though now that we will be going demand usage next summer, this would kick in some free electricity during those peak summer hours 2PM to 6PM

The cost is really nothing. The ONLY thing for me is I would most likely put the 4 panels on the roof. Dont think anything else would work aesthetically.

SO far only approved in UTAH. Now that the cat is out of the bag I can see the flood gates opening. I'll seriously look into this once all my other projects are done on our new home.

https://www.theverge.com/news/661640/ecoflow-stream-us-plug-in-solar-specs-price





I dont know, I get the ebee jeebe's about having something mounted on the roof, but 4 panels should take a professional maybe a couple hours? I can do the rest or even the whole thing.

Another company -
https://craftstrom.com/product/1200-watt-plugplay-solar/

It would be nice to see some big names get into this.

 

[JeffKeryk]

I love my solar... For those considering a solar project, make sure your roof is in good condition.

 

[mk378]

The panels themselves are actually nowhere near the majority cost of a solar project. Hardware and labor to mount panels on the roof is likely to cost more than the panels do. Then you need wiring, a converter, and if going off-grid, batteries.

 

[JeffKeryk]

The panels themselves are actually nowhere near the majority cost of a solar project. Hardware and labor to mount panels on the roof is likely to cost more than the panels do. Then you need wiring, a converter, and if going off-grid, batteries.

And management selling costs....

 

[SC Maintenance]

I would like a couple panels. No way I would attach them to the roof. I would put them on a stand and track the sun.

Can't have them in my HOA - roof or stand. Maybe the next place?

 

[KrisZ]

Without a dedicated circuit for these, you’re just asking for trouble. That’s like plugging in a generator into the 240v outlet.

 

[UncleDave]

My prime roof space is way too valuable for this, but it would be perfect for an outbuilding like my pump house/ lawn garage.

 

[DirtMover]

Without a dedicated circuit for these, you’re just asking for trouble. That’s like plugging in a generator into the 240v outlet.

That is exactly what it is.
However, the risk level is not at all the same--unless your Generator has a built-in transfer switch and integrated phase matching.

The micro-inverters' normal behavior is to only put power on the line if they detect power from the power company, and to match the power company's frequency in the process.
If the outside power goes down, the solar generator stops applying power to the house.

This is nothing new; I recall reading about grid-tie microinverters over 20 years ago (I had to stop typing and find it: https://guerrilla.solar/). It was utterly safe then, but power companies and government regulators were against it then and most still seem to be.

 

[Astro_Guy]

At about 5:00 in the video he says "no permits." I cannot speak for Utah but I think that is total BS for most of the USA. Local permits for putting solar on your roof are a significant cost factor in the ROI. Because of this you want to average that cost across as much capacity as possible.

Yesterday was nice and sunny in my neck of the woods. Here's a quick summary of how we did with a 14 kW rooftop array:

 

[alarmguy]

Without a dedicated circuit for these, you’re just asking for trouble. That’s like plugging in a generator into the 240v outlet.

No it’s not.
First it’s 120 volts
Second if power goes out to the house the panels disconnect.
However sure I would agree to an outlet on a separate circuit. But not required
If you do some research, you will see they are commonly used in Europe and now legal in Utah.

That’s how many generators work. Plug-in to a 240 outlet in that case its dedicated.

 

[alarmguy]

At about 5:00 in the video he says "no permits." I cannot speak for Utah but I think that is total BS for most of the USA. Local permits for putting solar on your roof are a significant cost factor in the ROI. Because of this you want to average that cost across as much capacity as possible.

Yesterday was nice and sunny in my neck of the woods. Here's a quick summary of how we did with a 14 kW rooftop array:

View attachment 293520

It is mentioned Utah only. The purpose of this post. The flood gate is being opened to something that has been approved in Europe for a while now. Makes perfect sense and now the first USA state has approved them. Sure the power monopolies will fight it after all it’s a threat.

It will now be the power companies against the manufacturers of this perfectly safe device use commonly in other places of the world

 

[Astro_Guy]

It is mentioned Utah only. The purpose of this post. The flood gate is being opened to something that has been approved in Europe for a while now. Makes perfect sense and now the first USA state has approved them. Sure the power monopolies will fight it after all it’s a threat.

It will now be the power companies against the manufacturers of this perfectly safe device use commonly in other places of the world

You seem to have missed my point. The uniform codes that many municipalities use have provisions for rooftop solar. A big part of this is having setback clearances for firefighters. Local municipalities require approval before construction and an inspection afterwards. Naturally they have fees for this.

I didn't mention this earlier but the notion of attaching the mounting rails anywhere as opposed to on roofing joists is just insane. Just think about all of the surface area of those panels in a wind storm attached to nothing but plywood. Perhaps it doen't get windy in Utah but it does where you and I live.

 

[mk378]

As you can see from the graph, peak consumption in a home occurs in the evening not mid-day. You really want to be able to sell or store the mid-day excess.

 

[2strokeNorthstar]

And management selling costs....

And CEOs private jet

 

[2strokeNorthstar]

As you can see from the graph, peak consumption in a home occurs in the evening not mid-day. You really want to be able to sell or store the mid-day excess.

Not on weekends when you would be more likely to plug the thing in a mess with it. Hopefully it would pay for itself before it breaks

 

[mk378]

I would put them on a stand and track the sun.

You never see that in practice. It is cheaper to install more panels in fixed position and take the cosine loss.

 

[alarmguy]

As you can see from the graph, peak consumption in a home occurs in the evening not mid-day. You really want to be able to sell or store the mid-day excess.

Mid day is when peak demand charges kick in. 2PM to 6PM @ 21 cents kWh vs 8 cents kWh off peak, Warm weather 6 months April to October
Then
6AM to 9AM winter Nov to April

With this system you can not sell back to the grid. You can't store either UNLESS you hook up completely seperate panels, wouldn't be worth it on a scale of this size. It's more like a science project.

 

[alarmguy]

Not on weekends when you would be more likely to plug the thing in a mess with it. Hopefully it would pay for itself before it breaks

It would be plugged in 24/7 and benefit from peak usage posted above this post
Agree assuming it doesn't break. Though as more states adopt it, more companies will be selling them.

With all I am saying, this would be just a fun project, it's not about saving a few dollars 7 years down the road (or whatever) but would make it more fun too.

 

[SC Maintenance]

You never see that in practice. It is cheaper to install more panels in fixed position and take the cosine loss.

Oh I totally understand why most residential installs don't bother - even if they had the space. But I do controls for a living so I am obligated.

I once wanted to heat a small house for a semi feral cat, but I am cheap and was afraid of burning it down. So I used a cheap electric heater basically sitting outside the house, with a 4 inch PVC pipe with a PC fan in it a few inches away as basically an induction system to pull the heat into the house, and a Chinese remote bulb temperature controller to cycle heat on with inside temperature at 50F and off at 60F all winter.....

I don't know if these commercially built units are any good. Probably build my own? https://www.eco-worthy.com/products..._LZXEz7hwDh3y_2BOu4jX8Y7YDsed5YcaAuTTEALw_wcB

 

[mk378]

It's the same at commercial solar farms. The cost and complexity of tracking the panels is not worth it versus derating them and using more.

And ultimately it takes the same amount of acreage per wattage, as gaps are necessary to prevent tilting panel assemblies from shading each other at low sun angles. The ground itself, being nominally flat and immovable, is subject to cosine loss.