Plastic radiator tank and replacement thoughts.

[Sayjac]

Had to replace my 03 Altima ~73k radiator this week so I thought I'd share some thoughts.

First, noticed the res tank was losing a little water. Then this week I smelled coolant noticed some on the fan/shroud and res tank lower. I thought it was from the rad. so I had it pressure tested by a local high school auto tech teacher. I wasn't there but at first he thought the clamp might be bad because it was in the area of the upper hose connection. He replaced the clamp and it still leaked so the rad. was bad.

The interesting part is the upper (and lower) tank is held on by the aluminum stays that fold over the plastic tank. However, in the area of the uppper and lower hose the stays are not folded over in those areas. Could it be just a coincidence?

Here's a close up picture of what I'm talking about.

I replaced the radiator with a NAPA purchased Spectra Prem.as shown above, made in Canada. The drain plug has a flat washer as opposed to OE tapered with o ring gasket, other than that very similar. Limited LT warranty (which I'm not concerned about) specify distilled water use, which I use anyway. After calling a respected area rad shop and some parts stores, it seems they don't make an all metal tanks for this car.

As for the OE radiator, it was clean as whistle inside, and I've used universal/LL coolants every ~2-3yrs since OE drain. The leak/crack is not visible upon closer inspection, can only surmise it's in the seam somewhere.

While I don't believe 2eha to be a factor in this leak, since the OM calls for drain every 2yrs/30k I think I may try Chev. Supreme low silicated tradition green sold at local Food Lion grocery for ~$12. I would try Bill's Peak Global LT but I can't find the full strength anywhere.

Any thoughts, have at it.

 

[The Critic]

I've used mostly 2-EHA Dexcool-like coolants in the Saturn for its entire 140k life.

The radiator failed back in the fall around 138k. The old radiator was relatively clean inside and the failure was due to a cracked tank as well.

 

[qship1996]

Dump some Prestone all Makes in there and change it every 2-3 years and all is well.

 

[Dan55]

I replaced The radiator on my 93 Saturn at around 200K ( cracked atf cooling line junction) it was clean as a whistle. I used Prestone Dex for its entire life after 36K, and changed it every 5 yrs.

 

[Chris142]

They dont fold the crimps over in some spots because those spots are near the hose connection or something else and the tank is made thicker there, theres no room to bend the metal over there.

Most conpanies are getting away from all metal/Copper replacements. Those just dont hold up in todays cars for some reason and your replacing the thing 4-5 times a year due to leaks. Plus Copper is still very costly. If I built an all metal radiator for your car the cost to me would easily be 2x what the plastic tank radiator cost you.

Your cost would be 3x what the plastic tank radiator cost you.

The plastic tank rads are designed to last 100K. If your anywhere near that and it leaks or gets plugged throw it away and buy a new one.

Some shops are still replacing the broken plastic tanks. This is usualy a bad idea.

A new tank + labor to install it is $100 or so. No warranty on the rest of the radiator.
3 weeks later the other tank breaks. Now your into the 2 tanks over $200.00 and no warranty.

A new radiator costs $90-$160 or whatever and you get some sort of warranty usually a year or longer. So it's actully cheaper in the long run to buy a new one vs repairing the old one.

 

[Sayjac]

Good information from someone that does it for a living. Basically what the local rad. shop guy told me. Cheaper to replace and throw out old.

The SP rad. cost ~$116 plus tax =$125. AAP and AZ both Ready Rad (strange huh) wanted $180 plus tax for lifetime replacement. Rock had some for less but out of the Spec Prem., but add shipping cost and time and it was a wash. NAPA was overnight, and gave a local guy some biz.

As for the crimps it was just my theory that they weren't folded because it was done by machine and the no room for the machine to get there. Just curious the leak/crack was from that area.

The tank was ~7& 1/2 years old, so not too bad I guess. Again though OE was clean inside with reg maint. OE was Calsonic made in the USA.

As for coolant, I may go back to a universal/LL, thinking about it while I do distilled flush series.

Got the old radiator, does anyone like a local rad shop recycle the old ones?

 

[Chris142]

Originally Posted By: sayjac


Got the old radiator, does anyone like a local rad shop recycle the old ones?
We collect them, pull the plastic off and take them in when we get a bunch.........Assuming that somebody doesn't steal them from behind our locked gates.

Last time I got about $.41 cents per pound for the aluminum cores. Need a bunch of them to make it worth while.

 

[Dave Hess]

Radiators are so cheap why would a person even consider fixing an old radiator ?

 

[oilboy123]

Originally Posted By: Chris142
Originally Posted By: sayjac


Got the old radiator, does anyone like a local rad shop recycle the old ones?
We collect them, pull the plastic off and take them in when we get a bunch.........Assuming that somebody doesn't steal them from behind our locked gates.


Last time I got about $.41 cents per pound for the aluminum cores. Need a bunch of them to make it worth while.

I do the same as Chris142
I took in some misc metal and three radiators to the metal recyclers.

 

[mechanicx]

Dexclones do prevent corrosion well. But they all contain 2EHA and it is entirely possible that the radiator seal at the tank or the plastic tanks themselves were not Dexclone compatible and slowly degraded over time. Of course sometime radiators go bad regardless but they don't always leak and many times last the life of the car.

This is the problem with Dexclones. They all contain 2EHA and are the same as Dexcool no question. And while they prevent corrosion well they slowly degaded most types of plastics over time. You can never be sure that your seals are Dexclone compatible and that they will last maximum life with it unless the car was validated for Dexcool and even then on earlier models its not for certain.

So the possibility for seal degradation is there and its very hard to rule it out. Dexclone is much more proven to deterioate seals than silicates are proven to harm anything. I think since the car was not FF with OAT EL and you stay on top of the coolant maintenance, the traditional Green would serve you well. I think Chevron makes a good coolant.

 

[Sayjac]

lol I figured you would say exactly that, so I'm not disappointed. Sort of why I put it out there. Of course, we now know that other Asian Super Long Life's use other chemical plasticizers, and who really knows if they are better, worse or no different? And the rad may have failed no matter what. One thing, there was no sludge/gel.

From reading, the average life of these plastic tanks is ~100k, so, some more some less.

One thing is for sure though, finding anything other than the universal/LL coolants in the major auto parts stores is a difficult task for sure. And, full strength Peak GL is not to be found in this area, period.

Appreciate your input though.

 

[Chris142]

Originally Posted By: LT4 Vette
Radiators are so cheap why would a person even consider fixing an old radiator ?
You should man the phones at my work for a day. Nobody wants new. They call asking for a rebuilt or used which we don't normally have.

The used plastic rads will leak if they are left and dry out so theres no reason for me to keep those around plus they all break at the same place so I don't have any extra "Pieces" to build a rebuilt with.

We used to stock some rebuilts for the most popular older stuff such as Toyota pickups and Jeeps but we ran out of those.

 

[Steve S]

Seems that plastic tank radiators last about 1o more or less years . There isn't the heavy brass radiators in cars anymore that would last the life of the engine if maintained.

 

[Oldmoparguy1]

I've had to replace 3 plastic rads in the last year or so. All were over 200k so I guess I got my moneys worth out of them. The thing is, the mounting tabs are a molded part of the plastic tank. All of the leaks were in an inside corner where the mounting tabs met the tank proper. So, basically it was a design/engineering problem that created a stress riser at that point. Age and mechanical stress probably caused the cracks. The cores are still good.

 

[mechanicx]

I've never had a plastic/aluminum radiator in my personal cars leak. I know of several cars that were 15 years old and over 150K when I got rid of them and the original radiator never leaked. I have one that is 21 years old and it has the original radiator.

I know they sometimes fail early though. I don't know what the average life is but from my experience if one failed before 10-15 years then I'd call it an early failure.

It seems like Japanese cars radiators tend to fail more. The only radiator leak I ever had on a car I owned was an '88 Toyota pickup with a copper-brass radiator that failed very early. This was before Dexcool came out.

One thing I never understood is why do Japanese vehicle use a downflow radiator like classic cars. I thought crossflow radiator were better and most American cars in the past 20-30 years have had a crossflow radiator.

 

[Chris142]

The only reason for a crossflow radiator is to lower the hood and grill area.

 

[mechanicx]

I've always been under the impression that a cross-flow radiator is more efficient and allows more cooling capacity. You'd think Japanese cars would need alow profile as much as domestics.

cooling systems

 

[UNC017]

Plastic-tank radiators have been a [censored] in my family. We've had a couple fail in less than 80k miles (replaced by an all-brass aftermarket unit which is still in the truck another 150,000 miles and many years later), and I've had one plastic radiator last well over 200k miles (1993 LH car).

My '66 has what I consider the ultimate- an all-welded 100% aluminum radiator. Very custom, unfortunately expensive, but I don't expect to ever have a problem with it. Except it can never be cleaned out if it should clog, just like a plastic tank/aluminum core radiator.

 

[UNC017]

Originally Posted By: mechanicx
I've always been under the impression that a cross-flow radiator is more efficient and allows more cooling capacity.


I don't see any thermodynamic reason for that at all. Given the same total surface area, the cooling capacity should be pretty much the same unless you get to where you're comparing EXTREMELY rectangular radiators (like a Jeep Cherokee) where the shorter dimension is about 1/4 of the long dimension. In that case I'd think you would want the tubes parallel to the longest dimension. The problem with tubes parallel to the shortest dimension is that you potentially can get very unequal flow among the tubes in that case.

 

[PandaBear]

I've had brass radiator in my Integra before and it last much worse than plastic tank. It had a hairline crack and I wasn't able to find the leak until much later. I'd image it had contributed to some overheat problem I had in my car by reducing the necessary pressure. IMO I'd rather it die and let me found out so I can replace it, than spending all these time troubleshooting the root cause.

One reason I suspect that some radiator fail earlier than others is the pressure. If the factory come with higher pressure the rad won't last as long. If the pressure is too low, bubble might develop and overheat, so they have to figure out an optimal value.