Plaid still has horrible brakes

[edyvw]

They're offering the BBK to compensate. My EV6 GT has 380mm brakes and it stops plenty fine.

You think a Plaid can do this? Why not? They weigh the same and have the same brake size?

Hint: It's not the brakes. If 4800# and 380mm brakes can handle Col de Turini, then I promise you it's not brake size that's at play here.

There are too many variables going on with brakes: Size, material, setup, cooling etc. Their execution is BAD. It is simple as that. The point is they are selling a vehicle that is supposedly a "performance" vehicle and selling it at a premium.
380mm is not enough for the speed Plaid can develop. Speed+weight, it won't work. This gaslighting of how it is illegal is absolutely irrelevant. Then they can make vehicle with 65hp and problem solved.
As for EV6 GT, let's say I am skeptical, I did hillclimb races in places like that in Europe in Yugo 55. The brakes were fine.

 

[Torrid]

Randy Pobst who is a professional race car driver, and is one of THE drivers that car and driver uses for their 10 best award every year. He said the plaid was dangerously unstable above 140 and flat out it only went 160. Elon.and a few upper executives should be jailed for fraud.

Tesla did a ****ty job of explaining this and we've heard the Plaid is a 200mph car. It is with the right options, otherwise it's limited to 160mph. To be honest I don't know if the 200mph option can even be purchased. That's the one that is supposed to have the brake upgrade but I haven't seen anyone actually have it.

*edit* It also looks like no matter what you do the Model X is limited to 149mph. It's only the Model S Plaid that can supposedly be optioned to do 200mph. The website doesn't reflect this either.

No way around the fact that Tesla is hard to defend. I love our Model 3. I feel like they got it right. I feel like it delivers well for its price point. I really dislike the Y and the X. The S is hit or miss for me based on features and some unnecessary complication. If I was in the market for a Model S, I likely wouldn't go for the Plaid. The non Plaid is still stupid fast for what it is.

 

[OVERKILL]

GTI PP / Golf R brakes are single piston and nothing too special...

The Tesla Model S Plaid brakes have 380mm front 365mm rear rotors with 4 piston front calipers. They are quite a bit larger. If you put your brakes on the Model S Plaid it would stop even worse. There seems to be some software issue beyond just thermal.

Oh, maybe you meant your Tesla. Still, I am not sure there is anything special about GTI PP brakes. It's a relatively light car though and I am sure Tesla screwed up something badly.

So the Model S Plaid has the same sized brakes as my Grand Cherokee, but 4 instead of 6-piston callipers? Jesus, even FCA went up in size when they increased the power, LOL! The Trackhawk has 400mm rotors up front.

 

[Vercingetorix]

Tesla needs to employ Porsche to build their brakes.

 

[Torrid]

While I agree it could use better brakes, I could imagine equipping it with brakes to make it at least perform mid pack here would lose 30-40 miles of range. That's huge.

 

[IndyIan]

So the Model S Plaid has the same sized brakes as my Grand Cherokee, but 4 instead of 6-piston callipers? Jesus, even FCA went up in size when they increased the power, LOL! The Trackhawk has 400mm rotors up front.

I guess the solution is huge brakes with pads that work well dead cold? But then also work for a couple 140mph stops?

While I agree it could use better brakes, I could imagine equipping it with brakes to make it at least perform mid pack here would lose 30-40 miles of range. That's huge.

I doubt it would lose significant range at all, 30lbs more of rotating weight isn't going to effect a 5000lb car especially with regenerative braking being used most/all? the time in normal driving.

 

[4WD]

So the Model S Plaid has the same sized brakes as my Grand Cherokee, but 4 instead of 6-piston callipers? Jesus, even FCA went up in size when they increased the power, LOL! The Trackhawk has 400mm rotors up front.

My ex boss has a 2014 (real) Shelby Super Snake (5.8L Trinity) -
Man, those brakes are just massive - discs fill up the entire wheel …

 

[Torrid]

I guess the solution is huge brakes with pads that work well dead cold? But then also work for a couple 140mph stops?

I doubt it would lose significant range at all, 30lbs more of rotating weight isn't going to effect a 5000lb car especially with regenerative braking being used most/all? the time in normal driving.

For example going from 19"s to 21" wheels on the Model S drops range from 405 to 375. The diameter is basically the same and the weight isn't much more. Unsprung weight is a killer on range.

 

[4WD]

Where's Ralph Nader when you need him? Tesla Plaid: Unsafe at Any Speed 2
[sarcasm]

Well … he’s 88 - so probably getting ready to run in the primaries

 

[OVERKILL]

I guess the solution is huge brakes with pads that work well dead cold? But then also work for a couple 140mph stops?

I doubt it would lose significant range at all, 30lbs more of rotating weight isn't going to effect a 5000lb car especially with regenerative braking being used most/all? the time in normal driving.

Think my OE pads are carbon metallic, they destroy the rotors in short order. They are ridiculously bitey on the first stop or two of the day, haven't tried them for multiple high speed stops however.

 

[Ws6]

There are too many variables going on with brakes: Size, material, setup, cooling etc. Their execution is BAD. It is simple as that. The point is they are selling a vehicle that is supposedly a "performance" vehicle and selling it at a premium.
380mm is not enough for the speed Plaid can develop. Speed+weight, it won't work. This gaslighting of how it is illegal is absolutely irrelevant. Then they can make vehicle with 65hp and problem solved.
As for EV6 GT, let's say I am skeptical, I did hillclimb races in places like that in Europe in Yugo 55. The brakes were fine.

Had no issues with the 'Ring testing L'Argus did, either...

https://www.largus.fr/actualite-aut...bonne-electrique-au-nurburgring-30024202.html

EV6 GT can generate 0.6g of braking without even using those 380mm rotors...

 

[edyvw]

Had no issues with the 'Ring testing L'Argus did, either...

https://www.largus.fr/actualite-aut...bonne-electrique-au-nurburgring-30024202.html

EV6 GT can generate 0.6g of braking without even using those 380mm rotors...

In your attempt to justify your purchase, you really don’t know what you talking about.
1. My Toyota could generate good braking force. Question is: then what.
2. Track tests for marketing purposes I don’t take seriously. It is KIA, let’s not forget that.
3. Plaid issues don’t have anything to do with KIA. You are assuming brakes on KIA are good based on marketing. KIA is not benchmark here. Those cars in video are.
4. It could have decent brakes, but not like BMW, Porsche etc. It is KIA. It comes with territory.

 

[andrew_j]

The reality is 90% Plaid drivers won’t know or care about the brakes…..sort of like suv drivers actually who don’t venture off road .

 

[Torrid]

The reality is 90% Plaid drivers won’t know or care about the brakes…..sort of like suv drivers actually who don’t venture off road .

And the majority are not driving the wheels off so it'll never be a problem.

 

[edyvw]

The reality is 90% Plaid drivers won’t know or care about the brakes…..sort of like suv drivers actually who don’t venture off road .

That is absolutely ridiculous.
This is horrible performance at 100mph. When you have 1020hp, 100mph might be a common occurrence out of mistake when merging. They might not care, but people in front of them might do care.

 

[chris719]

So the Model S Plaid has the same sized brakes as my Grand Cherokee, but 4 instead of 6-piston callipers? Jesus, even FCA went up in size when they increased the power, LOL! The Trackhawk has 400mm rotors up front

My M2 Competition has 400mm rotors up front and weighs 3550. It’s overkill though . I have no doubt the Tesla setup is good enough for non-track-use if it was done correctly. The problem is, there’s something wrong with it. We should not be seeing single stops be bad from cold brakes. Regardless of how you feel about the proportions of their brakes, it should be enough thermal mass to complete a few good stops from triple digits at tire-limited distances.

 

[andrew_j]

That is absolutely ridiculous.
This is horrible performance at 100mph. When you have 1020hp, 100mph might be a common occurrence out of mistake when merging. They might not care, but people in front of them might do care.

I understand you care and fall into the 10%. Many vehicles are capable of hitting 100 MPH with mediocre brakes …. A V6 sedan can easily hit this too and many have mediocre braking.

 

[Trav]

How many of those V6 sedans with crap brakes cost 120K and more? With Tesla you are buying a decent battery, good electric motors in a Chevy Citation quality vehicle.

 

[edyvw]

I understand you care and fall into the 10%. Many vehicles are capable of hitting 100 MPH with mediocre brakes …. A V6 sedan can easily hit this too and many have mediocre braking.

Many vehicles? This particular Tesla that was tested is 132,000 BRITISH pounds! That is over $150,000. Which are those "many" vehicles?
Also, my Sienna as well as my Tiguan and Atlas can hit 100mph, but they are perfectly stable braking, for far less money. And on that note, this is not only about brakes. The suspension is absolute garbage.

 

[edyvw]

My M2 Competition has 400mm rotors up front and weighs 3550. It’s overkill though . I have no doubt the Tesla setup is good enough for non-track-use if it was done correctly. The problem is, there’s something wrong with it. We should not be seeing single stops be bad from cold brakes. Regardless of how you feel about the proportions of their brakes, it should be enough thermal mass to complete a few good stops from triple digits at tire-limited distances.

When one builds a performance vehicle, you have to take into consideration, well, performance. This is where those big boys come to play. They actually know how to make a performance vehicle.
When a person buys M2, the manufacturer knows that there is a reason why that person wants M2 and not 316d station wagon (which also has good brakes, by the way).
Tesla is a software company more than a vehicle company. IMO, they lack a fundamental understanding of what the driver needs. Tesla 3 with that ridiculous TV in the middle is a perfect example.