Plaid still has horrible brakes

Torrid said:
I don't think it is any surprise that I like Tesla, but I think they start to be a less appealing product the higher the price goes. Would I buy a Plaid? I'm not sure. I'd probably rather have the Model 3 Performance even just due to the size of the car. If I was looking to spend Plaid money I think I'd rather try and make the stretch to the Porsche Taycan. Model 3P is a bargain for what it is. The Model X and Model S to me feel like unneeded complication for complications sake and like mentioned these cars aren't really built with the idea of flogging the crap out of it with track use. They just threw the amount of power at it because they could. It was mentioned that because of the power merging at 100mph is much more likely. Sure, I guess that can be true, but it doesn't make that number any less illegal.

Of course I like fast cars and of course I use them to the best of my ability when it's safe to do so in non populated, non busy areas. We don't buy fast cars to brag about them and look at them(some might). There's just a time and a place to do these things and the Plaid has some drawbacks. I still think it's cool.
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Illegality is absolutely irrelevant.
All cars on the road can reach 100mph. But, they can also stop. Car performing poor at 100mph will perform equally poor at 80, 75, 70.
 
edyvw said:
Yeah, that is not an issue.
Also, pay attention how unstable vehicle is.

This is answer to that profit margin per vehicle. If you put cheap interior, no brakes and lousy suspension, charge vehicle 132,000 pounds, yeah, margins are great.
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I wonder what people do with the alignment on these? The nurburgring video car seems quite pointy which feels pretty good at legal speeds, but not so much going at nurburgring speeds. Also the brake bias, regenerative braking bias, and stability control all have to be cooperating as well, there's a vid on youtube somewhere where a plaid seems to get confused on hard braking and hitting a big bump on track and basically spinning itself out!
 
edyvw said:
Well, kudos to Tesla 😂
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I will say it was far from the best showing. I’m assuming this isn’t the performance package which as far as I’m aware doesn’t exist yet. Supposedly it is with ceramic brakes which would likely be an improvement.

Personally don’t like large electric vehicles. They’re insanely heavy and have other drawbacks. I just don’t see any reason a 3 or Y isn’t a better choice other than knocking another second off to 60.
 
Sedin26 said:
That is incorrect! My 1993 Tercel will not reach 100mph 😂
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Trust me I notice a braking difference between my cars. The Tesla in no way competes with the brakes on my GTI which has the Autobahn/Performance pack with the Golf R brakes.

I like Tesla a lot but there's things where it's hard to defend them on. As mentioned brakes aren't their strong suit. Big brakes are heavy and reduce range and light brakes are expensive, though that was supposed to be an option. I don't know if they ever came available.
 
IndyIan said:
I wonder what people do with the alignment on these? The nurburgring video car seems quite pointy which feels pretty good at legal speeds, but not so much going at nurburgring speeds. Also the brake bias, regenerative braking bias, and stability control all have to be cooperating as well, there's a vid on youtube somewhere where a plaid seems to get confused on hard braking and hitting a big bump on track and basically spinning itself out!
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Not sure, but I think they are actually very stable cars with an understeer bias. If I had to bet the Nurburgring car is cheating and running some "beta" software so it behaves more loosely for a pro driver. They consistently score very highly on the Euro moose tests on YouTube.
 
The smoke on the final stop was pretty impressive, is that brake or tire smoke? Don't think I have seen that much smoke in braking tests since ABS became a standard issue item.

If anything like my electric VW's (e-Golf and now ID.4) regen shuts off completely and its all friction brakes if you brake hard enough to activate ABS. I think it operates this way for stability reasons (sliding on slippery surface) so I imagine Tesla probably operates similarly but Tesla owners can confirm. If so seems brakes were specced with regen taken into account but then immediately become undersized when regen is taken out of the picture. Outside of this the stop seemed quite unstable with how much he had to saw at the yoke - I have NEVER had to do this in any vehicle I have owned with ABS.
 
Torrid said:
Trust me I notice a braking difference between my cars. The Tesla in no way competes with the brakes on my GTI which has the Autobahn/Performance pack with the Golf R brakes.

I like Tesla a lot but there's things where it's hard to defend them on. As mentioned brakes aren't their strong suit. Big brakes are heavy and reduce range and light brakes are expensive, though that was supposed to be an option. I don't know if they ever came available.
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GTI PP / Golf R brakes are single piston and nothing too special...

The Tesla Model S Plaid brakes have 380mm front 365mm rear rotors with 4 piston front calipers. They are quite a bit larger. If you put your brakes on the Model S Plaid it would stop even worse. There seems to be some software issue beyond just thermal.

Oh, maybe you meant your Tesla. Still, I am not sure there is anything special about GTI PP brakes. It's a relatively light car though and I am sure Tesla screwed up something badly.
 
chris719 said:
GTI PP / Golf R brakes are single piston and nothing too special...

The Tesla Model S Plaid brakes have 380mm front 365mm rear rotors with 4 piston front calipers. They are quite a bit larger. If you put your brakes on the Model S Plaid it would stop even worse. There seems to be some software issue beyond just thermal.

Oh, maybe you meant your Tesla. Still, I am not sure there is anything special about GTI PP brakes. It's a relatively light car though and I am sure Tesla screwed up something badly.
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I'm not touting the GTI brakes as ready to do Tesla duty. I just mean they're the right application for the intended product. I've noticed no braking issues with our Tesla though either, I just find the GTI to be more direct and feel more positive. I'm not saying the brakes feel weak in any means on our Tesla. The RWD Model 3 brakes are more than adequate. I do not have direct experience with the Plaid.
 
chris719 said:
GTI PP / Golf R brakes are single piston and nothing too special...

The Tesla Model S Plaid brakes have 380mm front 365mm rear rotors with 4 piston front calipers. They are quite a bit larger. If you put your brakes on the Model S Plaid it would stop even worse. There seems to be some software issue beyond just thermal.

Oh, maybe you meant your Tesla. Still, I am not sure there is anything special about GTI PP brakes. It's a relatively light car though and I am sure Tesla screwed up something badly.
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380mm is not a lot for 1020hp. Regular M3 brakes on F30 are 380mm from 2014 and 405hp.
 
edyvw said:
380mm is not a lot for 1020hp. Regular M3 brakes on F30 are 380mm from 2014 and 405hp.
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Did you read my comment? It was comparing the Tesla brakes to GTI brakes. It was in no way an endorsement of the performance of the Tesla brakes.

The power isn't that important I would say. A Model S Plaid is 4800 lbs. Heavy, but you would think this setup could do better. There are many ICE cars with similarly sized brakes and weight near that. Not suitable for track use, but it should stop a few times without being terrible and right now it has some kind of problem. This is still a street car and having street car brakes is fine, but it definitely has some kind of issue.

I expect better hardware for the price, but there is clearly something beyond thermal mass going wrong here.
 
chris719 said:
Did you read my comment? It was comparing the Tesla brakes to GTI brakes. It was in no way an endorsement of the performance of the Tesla brakes.

The power isn't that important I would say. A Model S Plaid is 4800 lbs. Heavy, but you would think this setup could do better. There are many ICE cars with similarly sized brakes and weight near that. Not suitable for track use, but it should stop a few times without being terrible and right now it has some kind of problem. This is still a street car and having street car brakes is fine, but it definitely has some kind of issue.

I expect better hardware for the price, but there is clearly something beyond thermal mass going wrong here.
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I was making observation.
That braking performance is abysmal, street brakes or whatever. It doesn’t matter. There are heavier vehicles that would do far better.
Having 1020hp matters, a lot. It is supposedly performance vehicle. Serious manufacturers consider good brakes part of that performance package.
 
edyvw said:
I was making observation.
That braking performance is abysmal, street brakes or whatever. It doesn’t matter. There are heavier vehicles that would do far better.
Having 1020hp matters, a lot. It is supposedly performance vehicle. Serious manufacturers consider good brakes part of that performance package.
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This is my main complaint with Tesla. They are in kit car territory. Still. They're a lot better than they were, and let's be fair, the Viper was a kit car until 2009 or so, and it was a large company's Halo project.
 
edyvw said:
So, after all that drama with brakes, I thought Tesla would resolve issues.
Not only that they didn’t resolve issues, but it seems that vehicle has some serious issues with stability during braking.
Here is drag race by CarWow comparin BMW, MB, Lamborghini and Tesla Model X Plaid.


It is no surprise that Tesla is much faster. It pack 40% more hp and 20-30% more torque. But, pay attention to the end of video! That is absolutely insane for car that fast to have such lousy brakes.

So, I stumble on this video of Plaid on Nurburgring. Struggle by driver is indicative that this is all electric power, and literally nothing else. Cheap interior is complementary:
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Randy Pobst who is a professional race car driver, and is one of THE drivers that car and driver uses for their 10 best award every year. He said the plaid was dangerously unstable above 140 and flat out it only went 160. Elon.and a few upper executives should be jailed for fraud.
 
edyvw said:
Brakes are not fine. Size is not fine.
Otherwise they wouldn’t offer $20k BBK as solution.
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They're offering the BBK to compensate. My EV6 GT has 380mm brakes and it stops plenty fine.

You think a Plaid can do this? Why not? They weigh the same and have the same brake size?

Hint: It's not the brakes. If 4800# and 380mm brakes can handle Col de Turini, then I promise you it's not brake size that's at play here.



20080520_-_col_de_Turini.jpg
 
97prizm said:
Randy Pobst who is a professional race car driver, and is one of THE drivers that car and driver uses for their 10 best award every year. He said the plaid was dangerously unstable above 140 and flat out it only went 160. Elon.and a few upper executives should be jailed for fraud.
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I have heard/read numerous complaints of high speed stability in all models of Tesla.
 
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