Pistol Recommendations

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Originally Posted By: stchman
Originally Posted By: bubbatime
Originally Posted By: Killer223
kimber micro 380.. live mine.


He said home defense recommendation, not a recommendation for a pile of junk mouse gun. .380 is not a proper recommendation for home defense.


And what "authority" told you that? Stop listening to the tactical weenies. While I am not a Kimber fan, the .380ACP round is more than adequate.


Read my long detailed post on page two. Should explain my thought process.

And no "authority" told me that. My opinion is mine, based on years of training and experience. I guess you could call me a tactical weenie if that tickles your fancy. And I love the .380 caliber for small conceal carry pistols. I carry a .380 perhaps 50% of the time I leave the house. "Leave" the house, being the key word there. You see, its gets HOT in south Florida and I like to wear thin shirts and shorts a majority of the time. A .380 works perfect for that. I do NOT use that same .380 for home defense, when I have better choices available.
 
The Lucky Gunner has done some ballistics testing, and some of it echos the Shooting the Bull 410 tests on Youtube. The Hornady bullets do pretty decent. They meet FBI penetration specs and show decent expansion for the caliber. I use the Hornady critical defense loads in my Bersa Thunder 380 and like having the extra rounds over a 5 shot J frame snubbie.

http://www.luckygunner.com/labs/self-defense-ammo-ballistic-tests/#380ACP
 
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Originally Posted By: Robenstein
A good 380 is similar in performance to many 38 special defense loads from a snubbie wheelgun. This would be around 200-220lb of muzzle energy. You have to remember that most revolver load specs are with 4 inch barrels, so a 2 inch barrel will suffer a decent amount of energy loss. Of course alonger barrel helps the 380 reach parity though so something like a Bersa 380 would be comparable to a J frame S&W 38.

The problem with anything of that level is getting a round of ammo with a good balance of penetration and expansion.
The .38 snub with Short Barrel Gold Dots or similar offers quite a bit more performance than a pocket .380. Muzzle energy doesn't tell the story with these low energy rounds. The .38 with the greater bullet weight has much more momentum. Most defensive .38 also has more energy to boot than comparable .380 loads.
 
Originally Posted By: stchman
Originally Posted By: bubbatime
Originally Posted By: Killer223
kimber micro 380.. live mine.


He said home defense recommendation, not a recommendation for a pile of junk mouse gun. .380 is not a proper recommendation for home defense.


And what "authority" told you that? Stop listening to the tactical weenies. While I am not a Kimber fan, the .380ACP round is more than adequate.
A 5.56 or 12 gauge is adequate for home defense. A .308 is more than adequate. Service calibers are less than adequate but convenient. Little .25/.32/.380 autos are: hope this works. Really no reason when you could just as easily had a much more effective 9mm/etc. If you're talking concealed carry then the whole something is better than nothing applies.
 
Originally Posted By: hatt
A 5.56 or 12 gauge is adequate for home defense. A .308 is more than adequate. Service calibers are less than adequate but convenient. Little .25/.32/.380 autos are: hope this works. Really no reason when you could just as easily had a much more effective 9mm/etc. If you're talking concealed carry then the whole something is better than nothing applies.


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Originally Posted By: hatt
Originally Posted By: Robenstein
A good 380 is similar in performance to many 38 special defense loads from a snubbie wheelgun. This would be around 200-220lb of muzzle energy. You have to remember that most revolver load specs are with 4 inch barrels, so a 2 inch barrel will suffer a decent amount of energy loss. Of course alonger barrel helps the 380 reach parity though so something like a Bersa 380 would be comparable to a J frame S&W 38.

The problem with anything of that level is getting a round of ammo with a good balance of penetration and expansion.
The .38 snub with Short Barrel Gold Dots or similar offers quite a bit more performance than a pocket .380. Muzzle energy doesn't tell the story with these low energy rounds. The .38 with the greater bullet weight has much more momentum. Most defensive .38 also has more energy to boot than comparable .380 loads.



Not always. Here is a test (below) someone chronographed some of those 38 self defense loads (like Hydra Shock +p), while carrying a heavier bullet, were going quite a bit slower. Indeed out of a 2.5 inch S&W 19 they were going about 850 feet per second where the Hornady Critical Defense loads coming from a gun like my Bersa are clocking around 1000 feet per second. Yes a lighter bullet will scrub off speed quicker than a heavier one, that is simple Newtonian physics, but that extra 150 feet per second helps give the 380 some parity to some popular 38 special loads used for defense, especially the non +p lighter rounds. As I also mentioned before, you have to select your gun and your loads more carefully in the 380 to make it effective. You just have to do your due diligence as a consumer in matching ammo and gun, where just about any joe can toss some gold dots in a J frame and be fine.

http://www.snubnose.info/docs/38-snub_vs_357-snub.htm
 
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Originally Posted By: 2cool
If some bad guys are coming down your hallway to your bedroom door and they open it, how many shots do you seriously think you can get off before it becomes Hand-to-hand? Hits count!!! Not the number of rounds in the weapon.



I'm struggling to think of a scenario where the bad guys are going to press home their assault, advancing through gunfire to get at me.

If you seriously think this is a possibility, I suggest you have made some poor life decisions.
 
Originally Posted By: AlienBug
I'm struggling to think of a scenario where the bad guys are going to press home their assault, advancing through gunfire to get at me.

If you seriously think this is a possibility, I suggest you have made some poor life decisions.


There are two,readily apparent scenarios that fit the bill. You are right, MOST average criminals scatter like roaches when the bullets start to fly. But not always.

1) suicidal ex. Plans on a murder suicide and killing themselves anyway, so don't care and won't stop if you shoot at them.

2) drugged out of their mind. This scenario is more plausible, and happens more and more frequently these days. These people are out of their mind, don't care if you have a gun, and don't care if they have been shot. Example is the Miami face eating zombie who just grunted at the police officer after getting shot and then went back to his meal. These excited delirium events happen dozens of times a day nationwide, but obviously most don't make the news.
 
I've pretty much decided on a Glock 17. That seems to be the popular vote, I went down to the gun shop and they've got them for $535, pretty good price. The Glock 19 is too small. The guy at the gun shop said they could give me $200 for the .38 but recommended I sell it on backpage.com for $425, he says it should sell easy.

Thanks for the help guys, I'll let you know what my final decision is and what happens.
 
It's a good choice for learning the basics and for keeping at home. I've got one, too. Too big to conceal, really, but that's the only drawback of that pistol.

Now, get some ammo, and some instruction, and go have some fun!
 
Originally Posted By: Nick1994
I've pretty much decided on a Glock 17.


Don't forget the Walther PPQ, which I feel is a better handgun. Smith M&P9 V2 is nice as well.
 
Originally Posted By: bubbatime
Originally Posted By: Nick1994
I've pretty much decided on a Glock 17.


Don't forget the Walther PPQ, which I feel is a better handgun. Smith M&P9 V2 is nice as well.

The guy at the gun shop recommended I sell this revolver on backpage.com.

Wow, got my first sketchy guy. I was texting him and said I have a bill of sale and he doesn't want to sign one. Then asked what info I need for it, I said the name and address on your driver's license and he said "what if I don't have my driver's license" and I replied with "Then it isn't for sale". I won't sell it to a sketchy person.

It's too bad websites like this exist where background checks aren't performed. Oh well.
 
Originally Posted By: Nick1994
The guy at the gun shop recommended I sell this revolver on backpage.com.

Wow, got my first sketchy guy. I was texting him and said I have a bill of sale and he doesn't want to sign one. Then asked what info I need for it, I said the name and address on your driver's license and he said "what if I don't have my driver's license" and I replied with "Then it isn't for sale". I won't sell it to a sketchy person.

It's too bad websites like this exist where background checks aren't performed. Oh well.


That in itself doesn't necessarily mean the guy is up to no good, or as you put it, "sketchy". A lot of people are afraid of paperwork, due to possible government regulations tying them to their firearms. I know several older members at my gun club who stopped buying new firearms after the GCA of 68 was passed. They simply refuse to fill out a 4473 Form. It's not that they are criminals, or planning on any wrong doing with their firearms. They just don't want a paper trail leading back to them. They fear confiscation. Look at New York, along with their now infamous, "Safe Act", that was rammed through the legislature in the 11th hour by anti gun Governor Cuomo & Co.

It requires registration of AR-15's within a certain time frame from when it was passed, or else you are automatically legislated into becoming an automatic felon. While no one has been charged, and there has been no door to door inspections, and or confiscations of guns, if you have a 4473 on file for an AR-15 rifle you own, and have a New York address, you've basically given them a path to your door as good as a GPS.

The New York Safe Act has an estimated 85% or higher non compliance. Which I'm sure has something to do with nothing happening, as far as anyone being prosecuted under it. But my point is many people resent this type of legislation. And several of them feel how many guns they own, what type, and who they purchase them from or how, is no one's business but their own.

It's your weapon, and it's completely up to you who you choose to sell it to. I'm just saying if someone doesn't want to surrender that information to you, it doesn't automatically make them "sketchy", or a criminal. It means many of them don't trust a "sketchy" government that would love to do away with the Second Amendment. While I'm not paranoid about it. I don't trust them either.
 
Originally Posted By: Nick1994
Originally Posted By: bubbatime
Originally Posted By: Nick1994
I've pretty much decided on a Glock 17.


Don't forget the Walther PPQ, which I feel is a better handgun. Smith M&P9 V2 is nice as well.

The guy at the gun shop recommended I sell this revolver on backpage.com.

Wow, got my first sketchy guy. I was texting him and said I have a bill of sale and he doesn't want to sign one. Then asked what info I need for it, I said the name and address on your driver's license and he said "what if I don't have my driver's license" and I replied with "Then it isn't for sale". I won't sell it to a sketchy person.

It's too bad websites like this exist where background checks aren't performed. Oh well.
How are you performing a background check by getting his name and address?
 
I never sell a handgun privately to a person who does not have a permit to buy or CCW permit. I check to make their license to make sure the names match.

If at all possible I get a photo copy of both. The government never gets any of the info, it merely covers my butt that I did diligence to not sell a firearm to someone prohibited from owning one in the event the gun gets involved in a shooting.
 
Originally Posted By: Robenstein
I never sell a handgun privately to a person who does not have a CCW permit. I check to make their license to make sure the names match. If at all possible I get a photo copy of both. The government never gets any of the info, it merely covers my butt that I did diligence to not sell a firearm to someone prohibited from owning one in the event the gun gets involved in a shooting.
Same for me. I sold a SIG P229 a while back and quite a few people either did not have an LTC or did not want to sign any paperwork. Next...
 
Originally Posted By: billt460
Originally Posted By: Robenstein
I never sell a handgun privately to a person who does not have a permit to buy or CCW permit.


A "permit to buy"???


In my state you have to get a permit to purchase handguns if you do not have a CCW. The permit to buy is done by your local sheriff and allows you to purchase as many handguns as you want for a year.
 
Originally Posted By: hatt
How are you performing a background check by getting his name and address?
No background check needed to sell a gun privately in Arizona.

Originally Posted By: Robenstein
I never sell a handgun privately to a person who does not have a permit to buy or CCW permit. I check to make their license to make sure the names match.

If at all possible I get a photo copy of both. The government never gets any of the info, it merely covers my butt that I did diligence to not sell a firearm to someone prohibited from owning one in the event the gun gets involved in a shooting.
There is no permit to buy a gun in Arizona, and you don't need a CCW license.

Arizona is very lenient.
 
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