Pirelli AS Plus 3 or Michelin Defender LTX MS 2

[Fitz98]

I have Michelin defender LTX MS on my 03 Suburban and love them.
The MS is not available for my 2020 Nissan Armada and the MS 2 is a different compound and a heavier duty tire, so am concerned about the road noise and ride comfort. On the Suburban, that does not matter as much since it is my work vehicle, but I don't want a harsh ride on my Armada.
I will be towing a travel trailer a couple times a year, but mostly is a daily driver in Florida with lots of heat and rain.
I am also considering the Pirelli AS Plus 3, but am concerned about tread life. Lots of great reviews about ride quality, but even though they come with a 70k mile warranty, I am concerned that is more marketing than a real life expectation.
Any feed back on these 2 options on a similar vehicle?

 

[barkingspider]

I assume you have 20” wheels. I would go w the Pirelli. You may consider the Bridgestone dueler LX at a better price point.

 

[Rand]

I
The MS is not available for my 2020 Nissan Armada and the MS 2 is a different compound and a heavier duty tire, so am concerned about the road noise and ride comfort.

Why do you think its a heavier duty tire? vs the MS?

AFAIK the ms/2 is the newer version.. and there is a P rated version of that tire available in your size.

 

[edyvw]

I have Michelin defender LTX MS on my 03 Suburban and love them.
The MS is not available for my 2020 Nissan Armada and the MS 2 is a different compound and a heavier duty tire, so am concerned about the road noise and ride comfort. On the Suburban, that does not matter as much since it is my work vehicle, but I don't want a harsh ride on my Armada.
I will be towing a travel trailer a couple times a year, but mostly is a daily driver in Florida with lots of heat and rain.
I am also considering the Pirelli AS Plus 3, but am concerned about tread life. Lots of great reviews about ride quality, but even though they come with a 70k mile warranty, I am concerned that is more marketing than a real life expectation.
Any feed back on these 2 options on a similar vehicle?

It is not.
LTX M/S2 is a replacement for LTX M/S.
There is no comparison between Scorpion and Defender. Get Defender.

 

[Fitz98]

MS2 are an XL 116H load rating, my MS tires are 112T.

 

[edyvw]

MS2 are an XL 116H load rating, my MS tires are 112T.

That is not heavy duty. It is just a bit higher load and allows a bit higher pressure. It is questionable would you notice any difference.
"Heavy duty" one would be considered LT with E load category.

 

[Fitz98]

This is how I determined it was a heavier duty tire, not trying to tell you what you probably already know, just how I came to my conclusion during my initial research about the difference between ms and ms2.

The main difference between a tire labeled 112T and 116H lies in their load index and speed rating. A 112T tire is rated for a maximum load of 2469 lbs and a speed rating of 118 mph, while a 116H tire is rated for 2756 lbs and a speed rating of 130 mph.

Here's a more detailed breakdown:

• Load Index:
  • The load index is a number that indicates the maximum weight a tire can safely carry when inflated to its maximum pressure.
    
    
  • A higher load index means the tire can handle a greater load.
    
    
  • In this case, a 116H tire has a higher load capacity than a 112T tire.
  • The speed rating is a letter code that indicates the maximum speed at which a tire is approved for use.
    
    
  • H represents a speed rating of 130 mph, while T represents 118 mph.
    
    
  • A tire with an H rating is designed for higher speeds than a tire with a T rating.

In summary, while both tires can handle similar loads, the 116H tire offers a higher load capacity and is designed for faster speeds than the 112T tire.

 

[Fitz98]

That is not heavy duty. It is just a bit higher load and allows a bit higher pressure. It is questionable would you notice any difference.
"Heavy duty" one would be considered LT with E load category.

I see your point...that is my bad, I assumed ability to carry heavier loads meant heavier duty.
I am strongly considering them and if the performed like my MS tires, I would pull the trigger, but at 300.00 each, my concern would be a harsher ride in the short wheel base Armada.

 

[edyvw]

I see your point...that is my bad, I assumed ability to carry heavier loads meant heavier duty.
I am strongly considering them and if the performed like my MS tires, I would pull the trigger, but at 300.00 each, my concern would be a harsher ride in the short wheel base Armada.

Actually, you cannot compare those loads.
112 load was on your Suburban. It is a lighter vehicle than the Armada. Armada needs a different, higher load. Still, there would not be a difference between the two when it comes to comfort. DT for your vehicle offers Pirelli Scorpion with 115 load SL. I generally, for vehicles like that would always go XL if there is an option. Also, between two, Michelin will be more comfortable even if it is XL and 116.
Armada probably requires 114 load at minimum, so you won't find anything below that that anyone will sell you.

 

[Rand]

Heavier duty with be more "plys" such as a LT
a small increase in load rating wont affect ride much at all. Differences between brands and construction has much more impact on ride quality.

an H rated tire is guaranteed to have a nylon cap ply in the tread area which is a major plus although many T rated tires can have them.

 

[BrandonT]

Continental TerrainContact HT would be the tire I would use for a large SUV or truck. 3rd-party testing shows better performance than the Michelin LTX in every way. And this from someone who was very happy with the original LTX MS on my old Dakota. But tires have moved on a lot since those days.

 

[Rand]

Continental TerrainContact HT would be the tire I would use for a large SUV or truck. 3rd-party testing shows better performance than the Michelin LTX in every way. And this from someone who was very happy with the original LTX MS on my old Dakota. But tires have moved on a lot since those days.

I would consider them fairly even and shop on price.
People seem to have good feedback on both the defender ltx ms/2 and the Continental TerrainContact HT

 

[z71bill]

I would consider them fairly even and shop on price.
People seem to have good feedback on both the defender ltx ms/2 and the Continental TerrainContact HT

I have started shopping for tires for my Tahoe 265 65R18

Michelin LTX M/S2, Pirelli Scorpion AS +3, Continental Terraincontact (HT or AT) are my finalists, although Bridgestone AT Revo3 are still on the short list.

I see Michelin, Pirelli and Bridgestone tires on sale all the time - I never see Continental tires on sale.

It could just be random - I see they have expired rebates.

The original tires on the Tahoe were load index 112 - the Michelin tires I replaced 2x were both 114.

As far as I can tell in the 265 65R18 the new Defender will now come in 116 -

I don't see how the ride quality would not be impacted going from 112 to 116 so while still considering the Michelin it may get knocked out because of the load rating.

I drive 99% on road but would like a tire that looks a little like an AT tire but handles and rides like a highway tire. If it comes down to look or ride ride wins.

I am a little bored with the plain Jane sidewall of the Michelin Defender - but then sometimes boring can be a good thing in a tire.

 

[edyvw]

I have started shopping for tires for my Tahoe 265 65R18

Michelin LTX M/S2, Pirelli Scorpion AS +3, Continental Terraincontact (HT or AT) are my finalists, although Bridgestone AT Revo3 are still on the short list.

I see Michelin, Pirelli and Bridgestone tires on sale all the time - I never see Continental tires on sale.

It could just be random - I see they have expired rebates.

The original tires on the Tahoe were load index 112 - the Michelin tires I replaced 2x were both 114.

As far as I can tell in the 265 65R18 the new Defender will now come in 116 -

I don't see how the ride quality would not be impacted going from 112 to 116 so while still considering the Michelin it may get knocked out because of the load rating.

I drive 99% on road but would like a tire that looks a little like an AT tire but handles and rides like a highway tire. If it comes down to look or ride ride wins.

I am a little bored with the plain Jane sidewall of the Michelin Defender - but then sometimes boring can be a good thing in a tire.

112 were on the Suburban. His Armada needs at least 114.

 

[z71bill]

This is how I determined it was a heavier duty tire, not trying to tell you what you probably already know, just how I came to my conclusion during my initial research about the difference between ms and ms2.

The main difference between a tire labeled 112T and 116H lies in their load index and speed rating. A 112T tire is rated for a maximum load of 2469 lbs and a speed rating of 118 mph, while a 116H tire is rated for 2756 lbs and a speed rating of 130 mph.

Here's a more detailed breakdown:

• Load Index:
  • The load index is a number that indicates the maximum weight a tire can safely carry when inflated to its maximum pressure.
  • A higher load index means the tire can handle a greater load.
    
    
  • In this case, a 116H tire has a higher load capacity than a 112T tire.
  • The speed rating is a letter code that indicates the maximum speed at which a tire is approved for use.
    
    
  • H represents a speed rating of 130 mph, while T represents 118 mph.
    
    
  • A tire with an H rating is designed for higher speeds than a tire with a T rating.

In summary, while both tires can handle similar loads, the 116H tire offers a higher load capacity and is designed for faster speeds than the 112T tire.

I have read this - max load at max PSI many times - I think it is one of those yes it is true but it is misleading.

If you look at chart of PSI VS load for a standard load rated tire - the max load rating is achieved when the tire hits 36 PSI.

https://www.falkentire.com/load-inflation

Take a 114 load rating

It goes from 1,995 pounds at 26 PSI, 2,260 pounds at 30 PSI and 2,601 pounds at 36 PSI, which is the max for this tire. You can inflate these tires to 44 PSI but going above 36 PSI doesn't give you any additional load.

For XL tires the cut off is 42 PSI even if you can inflate them to 51 PSI the max load is still hit @ 42 PSI.

For LT "truck" tires they hit max PSI @ 80 PSI.

So while max load at max PSI is true - max load is hit before max PSI.

 

[z71bill]

112 were on the Suburban. His Armada needs at least 114.

I know.

 

[Oldswagon]

I just installed a set of Defender M/S2s on my truck and so far they ride great. This is my 4th set of Michelin LTX truck tires and these new ones seem better than ever. I didn't notice any stiffer ride from the old Defender LTX M/S tires I had on my old truck (same make and model truck). The load rating was also higher for my tire size.

The one big difference I noticed was the tread depth was significantly deeper on these new tires. FWIW, you can still find LTX M/S2 (not Defender LTX M/S2) tires in your size they have the lower load rating than Defender LTX M/S2s but also less tread depth. My dealer could get both tires and Tire Rack lists both.

 

[Fitz98]

Still leaning towards the Michelin's. Can't seem to find many people who dislike them for ride quality and tread life.
I had one bad experience many generations ago with the MS/2 getting dry rot and a sidewall failure and breaking outer tread blocks. Several sets of Michelin Defender MS later, nothing but good things to say about them, so I think they must have resolved that compound issue.
One thing I noticed with the MS/2 was that there are some front to back rubber between the outer shoulder tread blocks at about 50% of the tread depth.

I was curious how this would affect tire performance when the tread wears down to those sections, since then the outer tread blocks would be separated from the inner tread by a solid line of rubber.
Can't help but wonder what the performance will be like with this newer design at 50% of its life.

 

[Stumpalump]

There are tires better than the LTX said no man ever.

 

[z71bill]

I just installed a set of Defender M/S2s on my truck and so far they ride great. This is my 4th set of Michelin LTX truck tires and these new ones seem better than ever. I didn't notice any stiffer ride from the old Defender LTX M/S tires I had on my old truck (same make and model truck). The load rating was also higher for my tire size.

The one big difference I noticed was the tread depth was significantly deeper on these new tires. FWIW, you can still find LTX M/S2 (not Defender LTX M/S2) tires in your size they have the lower load rating than Defender LTX M/S2s but also less tread depth. My dealer could get both tires and Tire Rack lists both.

Per Discount Tire the Defender LTX M/S are being discontinued - Tire Rack also shows them as a close out.

The only other LTX I can find is Primacy LTX -

The old Defender M/S was rated 800AA
The new Defender M/S2 is rated 820BA

The traction rating got dropped to a B - they gave up some traction but both tires are still rated as 70K mile tires.

Sort of a letdown dropping to a B - I wonder if bumping the load index to 116 caused some loss in traction.

I think tire companies have been upping the load ratings so they can say the tire is rated for EVs. Since those batteries are heavy they need a higher rating.

This is just a guess on my part.

Whatever the tradeoff was - I would rather have better traction - without any doubt for me that is #1 thing a tire needs.

But of course with reasonable tread life.