Phaeton coming back....

[zloveraz]

I can't believe Martin Winterkorn thinks VW needs a Halo car in the upscale segment. I fear VAG is just turning into another GM with so much badge engineering between the brands.

http://www.leftlanenews.com/volkswagen-phaeton.html

 

[01rangerxl]

I think I agree that VW should probably just skip this segment in the US and leave it to Audi. Brand means a lot here, and US buyers are used to seeing the separate branding for luxury cars. VW simply doesn't have that perception here...people see them as nice cars, but not necessarily luxury cars. If they slap a $70-80K price tag on it, people are probably going to buy something else. It would need to compete with the Genesis if it wears a VW badge.

 

[shDK]

When you talk about vw should built a new pheaton or not. Remenber it is not only for the american market. It.s almost like you forget vw sell cars other places

The old pheaton was a brilliant car in many way (atleast what i could tell from a 30 min drive.)

It did misd some on the design to satisfie the show offs with to much money

 

[SteveSRT8]

You can bet they'll do their homework this time. They could hardly give them away the last time around.

The old one was indeed brilliant. Brilliantly over priced!

 

[apwillard1986]

As far as the US market is concerned the Phaeton is as bad an idea now as it was when they tried it the first time. It may be a fine auto but the new ultra high end ($70K+) sedan market is a tiny one percentage wise. The customers in that market want brand cache. They don’t want to explain to their friends and neighbors that their VW offering is a better choice than the BMW 7 series, MB S class, or Lexus LS they could have bought for the same money. If you want to sell it here; badge it an Audi.

The Japanese took a page from the domestics in the eighties and figured out that offering luxury autos under a separate luxury brand is the best way to sell them here.

 

[Spazdog]

Originally Posted By: apwillard1986
As far as the US market is concerned the Phaeton is as bad an idea now as it was when they tried it the first time. It may be a fine auto but the new ultra high end ($70K+) sedan market is a tiny one percentage wise. The customers in that market want brand cache. They don’t want to explain to their friends and neighbors that their VW offering is a better choice than the BMW 7 series, MB S class, or Lexus LS they could have bought for the same money. If you want to sell it here; badge it an Audi.

The Japanese took a page from the domestics in the eighties and figured out that offering luxury autos under a separate luxury brand is the best way to sell them here.

Agreed.

The biggest problem with the previous Phaeton was the VW badge in the grill. They should give it a clever letter/number designation and call it an Audi. Consumers should flock to 3/4ths of a Bently at sub $100,000 prices. But the brand cache is part of that equation

 

[Quattro Pete]

Wasn't the real reason for the original Phaeton development to just be an R&D bed for Bentley Continental? VAG wanted to make the Bentley subsidiary look better on paper, so they did not want to stick it with a huge R&D bill. So instead they used Phaeton as the test mule and VW absorbed majority of the R&D cost.

Is this new Phaeton going to be the same?

 

[JHZR2]

Who doesnt have badge engineering? Toyota sells a camry badged as a lexus, and Honda sells an accord badged as a TSX. Are those somehow OK?

Shared parts are a point of cost savings and shared platforms are here to stay.

 

[needsducktape]

i will bet my left nut it will be a flop. no one is buying a land yacht vw. The whole image of the brand is younger buyers... golfs and jettas- Its a niche brand for euro hipsters. Anyone spending that kind of money is looking for the 4 rings of Audi....

 

[dparm]

Originally Posted By: zloveraz
I fear VAG is just turning into another GM with so much badge engineering between the brands.



Not true in America. There is less and less platform sharing now; the Passat is not the A4 anymore, for example.

The only related vehicles between VW and Audi (in the US at least) are the A3 & Golf, and the Tiguan & Q5.

 

[HerrStig]

Originally Posted By: 01rangerxl
I think I agree that VW should probably just skip this segment in the US and leave it to Audi. Brand means a lot here, and US buyers are used to seeing the separate branding for luxury cars. VW simply doesn't have that perception here...people see them as nice cars, but not necessarily luxury cars. If they slap a $70-80K price tag on it, people are probably going to buy something else. It would need to compete with the Genesis if it wears a VW badge.
Doesn't much matter what's IN it here, it's got to be a "better" brand than your neighbor, even if it were just a Chevy Cavallier with a Caddy grill. "Out my way, I got a Caddy". The ES300 is a nice car, for example, but nothing more than a Camry XLE rebadge with some different body panels.

 

[Burt]

It was a great car and if you bought it used you got great value due to depreciation hit. The only hting that kept me back was the W12 was a gas hog.

 

[dohnuts]

I thought the first gen was a great car, but knew that depreciation was going to kick in big time, and had serious doubts about how well it could sell. There are used examples selling for a fraction of original price, with low-ish miles (I check in on the car every so often). The absolute terror of something breaking and costing a bundle to repair keeps me from seriously considering it. The motorized vent covers, for example...

 

[gofast182]

Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Who doesnt have badge engineering? Toyota sells a camry badged as a lexus, and Honda sells an accord badged as a TSX. Are those somehow OK?

Shared parts are a point of cost savings and shared platforms are here to stay.

While you're correct the TSX is badge engineered, just because it comes from a model called Accord, it shares little if anything with the US Accord as it was designed and built to compete directly with the FWD A4, etc.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: gofast182
While you're correct the TSX is badge engineered, just because it comes from a model called Accord, it shares little if anything with the US Accord

Right. It shares everything with the Euro Accord.

 

[scurvy]

Originally Posted By: dparm
The only related vehicles between VW and Audi (in the US at least) are the A3 & Golf, and the Tiguan & Q5.

Don't forget the VW Touraeg, Audi Q7 & Porsche Cayenne. All made on the VWAG PL71 platform in Bratislava, Slovakia.

Rumor has it that a Lambo & Bentley will both share the same basic platform as well.

 

[hattaresguy]

The previous Phaeton was an utterly brilliant car based on the Bentley. It was a proper no compromise engineers car like the Veyron. This new one is just a badge engineered A8, lame.

 

[hattaresguy]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Wasn't the real reason for the original Phaeton development to just be an R&D bed for Bentley Continental? VAG wanted to make the Bentley subsidiary look better on paper, so they did not want to stick it with a huge R&D bill. So instead they used Phaeton as the test mule and VW absorbed majority of the R&D cost.

Is this new Phaeton going to be the same?


Yep, and it had to meet some crazy performance specs. I want to say one was to be able to run at 180mph until the tank ran dry when it was over 100 outside and it had to be able to maintain the cabin in the 60's.

It was a Bentley with the wrong badge, but [censored] near just as good. You could buy 3/4 of a Bentley for under $100k.

 

[zloveraz]

Originally Posted By: hattaresguy
The previous Phaeton was an utterly brilliant car based on the Bentley. It was a proper no compromise engineers car like the Veyron. This new one is just a badge engineered A8, lame.



It wasn't based on Bentley it was badge engineered with the Bentley.

The Phaeton's platform, the Volkswagen Group D1 platform, is shared with the Bentley Continental GT and Bentley Continental Flying Spur.

Now it's based on the A8, I'd rather have the A8 if I was interested.

 

[SteveSRT8]

Originally Posted By: hattaresguy
The previous Phaeton was an utterly brilliant car based on the Bentley. It was a proper no compromise engineers car like the Veyron. This new one is just a badge engineered A8, lame.


The newer A8's don't have a lame bone in their expensive body!