Petro Canada increasing EV charging fees?!

[y_p_w]

You’ll get a 200k mile life out of it. A faster charge would always be welcome. I find it works fine for a family trip because everyone wants to stop more than I want to, so that’s when we plug in.

Batteries will clearly lose capacity over that time, but how much depends on way too many factors. But there are lots of 200,000 mile original batteries that are still working reasonably well. That would opposed to ICE engines that aren't working as well as they once did. I've experienced a lot of 6-figure mileage cars that run OK but the fuel economy decreased for any number of reasons.

I've seen plenty of out of state plates and can tell where visitors are planning their charging stops.

I don't think we'll ever get to the point where there are battery swaps though.

 

[Torrid]

Tesla engineers have repeatedly said that once they removed radar from the vehicles that the accident per mile rate went up. Bats can "see" in pitch black caves humans can't. For some reason the Muskrat doesn't listen to anything Tesla engineers say, yet many look at him like he's some deity or martyr. The idea that Musk wants Tesla vehicles to "learn" is insane. I've said for years that the roads will also have to be adapted for autonomous vehicles as they were designed in the 50's.

The worst part is the people who blindly believe the Autopilot BS. It's downright dangerous. It's a nice driver assist feature, but if the driver blindly trusts it that's a huge problem. Tesla is bringing back radar. I wonder why?

Sometimes it's hard to be mad at the naive customer with the name Autopilot and Full Self Driving. It's almost like they were named to fool the general public. Even owning a Tesla it's hard to have a conversation with some owners, especially as a car guy. The ones that didn't take an interest in cars before Tesla are clueless and the most trusting. I mean it's fine to not love cars, but believing the marketing material, falling in love with the product, and having no real understanding how cars work is a very dangerous combination.

 

[Snagglefoot]

Let’s imagine an average customer takes 25 minutes to charge his car (20 +30)/2 = 25, and that the charger is being used from 6 in the morning to 9 at night. That’s 15 hours per day. The revenue to PetroCanada would be 15 x 60 x $0.35 = $315 per day. Of course it would be less because it would take time to move cars into position. PetroCanada has to purchase that power so $315 is revenue, but not profit.

Here we are driving past a PetroCanada charging station west of Calgary. Nobody was using it. Not too many EV’s try driving across Canada.

 

[ecotourist]

Here we are driving past a PetroCanada charging station west of Calgary. Nobody was using it. Not too many EV’s try driving across Canada.

Interesting that you would find an empty EV charging station a novelty. Most non EV owners are worried that there will be a line up to charge.

Tesla is the most common EV in this area. And you can't charge a Tesla at a Petro Canada charging station. That's not very smart of Petro Canada, or perhaps they realize that few Teslas would use their service.

With some Tesla models (not mine) you can now buy a Tesla OEM adapter to a CCS charge point, but why would you bother? Superchargers are the best level 3 chargers, full stop. We drove through Calgary last summer and charged at a Supercharger both before and after Calgary. Didn't bother charging in Calgary.

For a real novelty, several people took pictures of 3 Teslas (including ours) charging at the Supercharger at Vegreville Alberta. The local wags said it would never be used.

 

[Sedin26]

Interesting that you would find an empty EV charging station a novelty. Most non EV owners are worried that there will be a line up to charge.

Tesla is the most common EV in this area. And you can't charge a Tesla at a Petro Canada charging station. That's not very smart of Petro Canada, or perhaps they realize that few Teslas would use their service.

With some Tesla models (not mine) you can now buy a Tesla OEM adapter to a CCS charge point, but why would you bother? Superchargers are the best level 3 chargers, full stop. We drove through Calgary last summer and charged at a Supercharger both before and after Calgary. Didn't bother charging in Calgary.

For a real novelty, several people took pictures of 3 Teslas (including ours) charging at the Supercharger at Vegreville Alberta. The local wags said it would never be used.

I believe you can buy decent quality chademo to Tesla adapters and charge at Petro Canada. As you say, not much call for that when you can generally go to a supercharger. If I owned a Tesla or other EV I’d own adapters for CCS, Chademo, and maybe one or two plug-in adapters for plugs you’d come across at campgrounds. Superchargers are everywhere but not as much in rural areas that I might visit.

 

[Torrid]

I believe you can buy decent quality chademo to Tesla adapters and charge at Petro Canada. As you say, not much call for that when you can generally go to a supercharger. If I owned a Tesla or other EV I’d own adapters for CCS, Chademo, and maybe one or two plug-in adapters for plugs you’d come across at campgrounds. Superchargers are everywhere but not as much in rural areas that I might visit.

I have the J-1772 but that came with the car. I thought about getting a CCS adapter, but I've never had a problem using a Tesla Supercharger when I needed it. It's definitely not a bad idea though.

 

[Sedin26]

Someone who has an electric car with the fancy gps that shows charging stations, would you please plan a drive from Vancouver BC to Atlin BC, and then post your route, stops to charge, etc.
I'm truly curious.
My semi trucks regularly do this run, and I've wondered if a normal electric car would be able to without carrying camping gear, a cook stove, cooler of food, tent, generator, and lots of gas for the generator.

It looks like you can get to Hazelton, which is a long drive, but it goes bad when you get into the mountains more.

In all fairness, that’s fairly remote. I suspect BC Hydro will fill in the gaps but I wouldn’t want to own an EV for that trip unless multiple providers had chargers along the way.

Further, BC Hydro chargers are often only 50kwh and there’s no way you’d want to do that trip. ICE will probably be king in your area for the foreseeable future for anyone who wants to do trips.

 

[ecotourist]

I believe you can buy decent quality chademo to Tesla adapters and charge at Petro Canada. As you say, not much call for that when you can generally go to a supercharger. If I owned a Tesla or other EV I’d own adapters for CCS, Chademo, and maybe one or two plug-in adapters for plugs you’d come across at campgrounds. Superchargers are everywhere but not as much in rural areas that I might visit.

Tesla OEM Chademo adapters have been available for a few years.

Tesla OEM CCS adapters have been available for the past 6 months or so. But not all Teslas have been set up to use them (mine hasn't). Other branda of CCS adapters have been available for several years but (based on videos I've seen) they only work some of the time.

The last time I checked, Petro Canada had only set up charging stations along the Trans Canada highway, which is actually more restricted than the Tesla Superchargers which cover other routes (Yellowhead Highway, Edmonton to Calgary, Regina to Saskatoon, etc) in addition to following the Trans Canada Highway.

I'd like to be able to drive from Vancouver to Edmonton via Jasper but there is a too long stretch from Kamloops to Jasper with no charger that I'd want to count on. I can go via Calgary but that is not my favoured route.

 

[Torrid]

Batteries will clearly lose capacity over that time, but how much depends on way too many factors. But there are lots of 200,000 mile original batteries that are still working reasonably well. That would opposed to ICE engines that aren't working as well as they once did. I've experienced a lot of 6-figure mileage cars that run OK but the fuel economy decreased for any number of reasons.

I've seen plenty of out of state plates and can tell where visitors are planning their charging stops.

I don't think we'll ever get to the point where there are battery swaps though.

Swaps instead of charging would be a good fix for worrying about eventual replacement, even if that is not likely. I'm sure the swap situation isn't happening for liability reasons. Probably too many possibilities of issues when it comes to swapping high voltage connections.

 

[CanAmAndMore]

It looks like you can get to Hazelton, which is a long drive, but it goes bad when you get into the mountains more.

In all fairness, that’s fairly remote. I suspect BC Hydro will fill in the gaps but I wouldn’t want to own an EV for that trip unless multiple providers had chargers along the way.

Further, BC Hydro chargers are often only 50kwh and there’s no way you’d want to do that trip. ICE will probably be king in your area for the foreseeable future for anyone who wants to do trips.

Hazelton is along a major hwy so should be easy.
Its the long drive into remote areas that I have to do that would concern me.
We have a plethora of very remote places around northern BC.
Twelve hour drives with no cell service, gas stations, stores, nothing.
My semi trucks can do over 3000 kms on full tanks, so have the range.

 

[CanAmAndMore]

Tesla OEM Chademo adapters have been available for a few years.

Tesla OEM CCS adapters have been available for the past 6 months or so. But not all Teslas have been set up to use them (mine hasn't). Other branda of CCS adapters have been available for several years but (based on videos I've seen) they only work some of the time.

The last time I checked, Petro Canada had only set up charging stations along the Trans Canada highway, which is actually more restricted than the Tesla Superchargers which cover other routes (Yellowhead Highway, Edmonton to Calgary, Regina to Saskatoon, etc) in addition to following the Trans Canada Highway.

I'd like to be able to drive from Vancouver to Edmonton via Jasper but there is a too long stretch from Kamloops to Jasper with no charger that I'd want to count on. I can go via Calgary but that is not my favoured route.

Valemount and Blue river should have something.
I've driven those roads more times than I care to remember, but usually in a semi truck.

 

[CanAmAndMore]

A buddy of mine bought an electric F-150 about months ago. I took it on a long trip recently and he found that driving 70+ MPH lowered his mileage range considerably. I would be rather skeptical about the claimed range of any electric vehicle unless I knew at what speed they were testing it at.

Some years ago, the Feds finally did make the automakers started testing their gasoline fueled cars with a standard drive cycle and the MPG became somewhat realistic instead of the ridiculous MPG that they used to advertise. The same needs to happen with E cars.

In my experience driving electric cars here, a realistic number would be 60% of what Tesla advertises for range.
Since you would need to leave a little bit of power for variables to be safe, exactly half would be the most I would feel comfortable trip planning for.
My best friend has a Hyundai ioniq 5 and hyundai is more honest about real world range than tesla is, she can get 70% of the range that hyundai advertises.
She has a Honda Ridgeline for road trips the 5 isn't suited for, but she likes it for running around the immediate area.
She won't be driving it to Atlin, Tumbler ridge, Valemount etc though. At least not without packing a generator along.
I told her if she ever wants to borrow my Honda 3500 watt to come grab it.

 

[ecotourist]

Valemount and Blue river should have something.
I've driven those roads more times than I care to remember, but usually in a semi truck.

I've driven it many times too.

They do have "something". There is a level 2 charger at Wire Cache Creek, and a level 2 "destination charger" for motel customers in Valemount. If you don't care for the hotel rates, if the charger at the hotel is out of order, or someone blocks the charger all night it could be a long tow. It is likely possible to charge up enough at Wire Cache Creek to complete the journey but that would take many hours at a level 2 charger. And that charger could be out of order. Tesla Superchargers have very high reliability and you can count on them working. With other chargers, (apparently) not so much.

So these chargers are not something I'm willing to take a chance on. That route needs at least one Supercharger.

 

[Number_35]

For a real novelty, several people took pictures of 3 Teslas (including ours) charging at the Supercharger at Vegreville Alberta. The local wags said it would never be used.

They're still holding out for a car that runs on perogy filling.

 

[JeffKeryk]

They're still holding out for a car that runs on perogy filling.

My grandmother would say, "Varenyky."

 

[ecotourist]

Valemount and Blue river should have something.
I've driven those roads more times than I care to remember, but usually in a semi truck.

See my post today on the Slooow 220 Volt 10 Amp J1772 charger at my SIL's place.

Trying to use a J1772 10 Amp charger would be no fun at all on the Kamloops to Jasper route. You'd make some progress I suppose if you could use it overnight as a destination charger but it would be brutal if that's what they have at Wire Cache Creek. Might as well bring your camping equipment, because you're going to be there for a while.

 

[CanAmAndMore]

I believe that if electrics ever gain any sales up here, the way to make them more practical will be chargers at hotels. Pull in, check in, stay the night, and just have your electric bill added to your room bill. Same goes in the parking lots of some restaurants, have a slow and leisurely lunch, so your car has a couple of hours to take on some charge. If even half of the hotels and restaurants got onboard with installing chargers, then an ev would at least not be as useless up here.

 

[Torrid]

I believe that if electrics ever gain any sales up here, the way to make them more practical will be chargers at hotels. Pull in, check in, stay the night, and just have your electric bill added to your room bill. Same goes in the parking lots of some restaurants, have a slow and leisurely lunch, so your car has a couple of hours to take on some charge. If even half of the hotels and restaurants got onboard with installing chargers, then an ev would at least not be as useless up here.

I don't know where you get this stuff. This is already in a number of spots. If your area is much like mine though there aren't too many great options unless you can use a Tesla charger instead of that stupid slow level 2 stuff. You're looking at 15-20 minutes in those cases, not hours.

 

[CanAmAndMore]

I don't know where you get this stuff. This is already in a number of spots. If your area is much like mine though there aren't too many great options unless you can use a Tesla charger instead of that stupid slow level 2 stuff. You're looking at 15-20 minutes in those cases, not hours.

Where you are it might be great, here it is anything but.

And I would be thrilled if they changed from 5% to full in 30 minutes m

 

[SHOZ]

Squeezing the last bit takes longer. That’s the case with almost any lithium-ion battery system. Maximum charge rate is almost always reduced approaching 100% to improve battery longevity and most importantly to reduce fire risk. Encouraging charging to 80% helps to improve turnover, especially given how long it takes to finish off to 100%.

It’s a different setup without active cooling and heating, but Apple used to advertise maybe a 3 hour charge time with their approved “Fast Charging” iPhone equipment where it was about 1 hour from 0-70%, but 3 hours to 100%.

Here’s a pretty good article in it. They tried an empty 250 kW Tesla Supercharger and compared it to a 150 kW version. Didn’t save that much time because they basically peaked quickly and then tapered off to about the same charge rate.

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a32132062/tesla-250-kw-vs-150-kw-supercharger-tested/

Just like a lead acid battery. You can dump a ton of electrons in it when low but as it nears full charge it tapers off.