Petro Canada increasing EV charging fees?!

[Cujet]

So what? Tesla superchargers give you 200 miles of range in 15 mins. I doubt these Petro-Canada units are that far off. So let's say 30 mins max.

Sadly, despite the wild claims, reality is another story. The Superchargers don't give 200 miles of highway range in 15 minutes. A real world number is 160-180 miles in 45 minutes.

Here is what tesla says about road trips: Level 3 Superchargers can take a Tesla from 0-170 miles range in just 30 minutes

Notice carefully, that's starting at "0%" range, not 10% or 15% in the manner that we are likely to choose. I'm not a fan of running out of gas or battery power, as I coast in to the station. Did that in college when broke, it sucked.

Charging slows significantly over time.

 

[CanAmAndMore]

Thank you to all who contributed in this thread.
I've enjoyed learning about this, and nobody went on a rant about only gas, or only electric is good. This was a mature, and wonderful conversation.
I'm not ready to buy an electric car tomorrow, but maybe in the future I'll buy one as a good errand runner, and park it beside the gas cars.
Batteries and chargers will obviously keep advancing as well, so who knows if in a decade from now if they are much more practical to own. If 10 years from now I sell the Accord, and replace it with something electric, nothing wrong with that. I'm certain that in a decade my Boxster and Ram pickup will still also be in the garage for trips not practical to use an ev for.

 

[Torrid]

Sadly, despite the wild claims, reality is another story. The Superchargers don't give 200 miles of highway range in 15 minutes. A real world number is 160-180 miles in 45 minutes.

Here is what tesla says about road trips: Level 3 Superchargers can take a Tesla from 0-170 miles range in just 30 minutes

Notice carefully, that's starting at "0%" range, not 10% or 15% in the manner that we are likely to choose. I'm not a fan of running out of gas or battery power, as I coast in to the station. Did that in college when broke, it sucked.

Charging slows significantly over time.

If 4 year old data is still accurate today then mine must be some factory freak…

 

[y_p_w]

Thank you to all who contributed in this thread.
I've enjoyed learning about this, and nobody went on a rant about only gas, or only electric is good. This was a mature, and wonderful conversation.
I'm not ready to buy an electric car tomorrow, but maybe in the future I'll buy one as a good errand runner, and park it beside the gas cars.
Batteries and chargers will obviously keep advancing as well, so who knows if in a decade from now if they are much more practical to own. If 10 years from now I sell the Accord, and replace it with something electric, nothing wrong with that. I'm certain that in a decade my Boxster and Ram pickup will still also be in the garage for trips not practical to use an ev for.

I'm not sure there are many who have gone completely EV. It wouldn't really make that much sense. If you really need to go somewhere that it's going to be near impossible to charge, then don't do it. But it's just something that requires planning if one is going to go.

I don't expect that it's going to be practical anytime soon to go to a remote location in the furthest reaches of British Columbia or Alaska with a 225 mile EV range, but I'm darn sure I can make it to almost any location in the continental United States in a Tesla Model 3.

 

[y_p_w]

If 4 year old data is still accurate today then mine must be some factory freak…

There are all sorts of research and software updates. That being said, there's still going to be a tapering of charge rates. That's an inherent need for any lithium-ion battery charging system of any speed. With a lower input power rate, there's no need to taper the input power until it's almost at 100%.

 

[demarpaint]

I just pull into the most convenient place, anything right beside the hwy with easy in and out is fine. Must be on the same side of the hwy as my direction of travel.
If it costs me another 50 cents or a dollar, that is a small price to pay for convenience.

Me too. I know people who will drive around 10 minutes or more when they get off the highway for gas on a trip looking to save a few cents on a gallon. The wasted time and effort isn't worth a buck or two on a trip or a vacation.

 

[JeffKeryk]

Me too. I know people who will drive around 10 minutes or more when they get off the highway for gas on a trip looking to save a few cents on a gallon. The wasted time and effort isn't worth a buck or two on a trip or a vacation.

You don't live in CA... Just kidding!
But gas can easily be 50 cents or far more per gallon. I think the Chevron around the corner could be $1.00 more than the Costco I hit yesterday to fill the TSX with 91* and shop for whatever.

 

[y_p_w]

You don't live in CA... Just kidding!
But gas can easily be 50 cents or far more per gallon. I think the Chevron around the corner could be $1.00 more than the Costco I hit yesterday to fill the TSX with 91* and shop for whatever.

For me it's Shell stations that typically have the highest prices. Heck - I know of a Shell station next to an Arco station, and the cash prices are typically about a 70-80 cent difference per gallon.

 

[Fla]

In another thread, the OP purchased a new Camry Hybrid base model (that's the one with the best MPG) and is seeing over 50MPG and considering how far $30 can get you about 300 miles in Canada.

Just thinking about Petro Canada's chargers, they claim 350KW is available at "most locations". However, reading the users comments, it seems charge rates can be quite slow for some. How many 350KW chargers do they have per location?

The upcoming pickup trucks with 200KWh battery packs are said to be able to accept 350KW charge rates and can get 100 miles of city range (about 60 miles highway) in 10 minutes.

The issue as I see it, is that many times, the charge rate is much lower than the specifications would suggest. Especially if all chargers are occupied.

A buddy of mine bought an electric F-150 about months ago. I took it on a long trip recently and he found that driving 70+ MPH lowered his mileage range considerably. I would be rather skeptical about the claimed range of any electric vehicle unless I knew at what speed they were testing it at.

Some years ago, the Feds finally did make the automakers started testing their gasoline fueled cars with a standard drive cycle and the MPG became somewhat realistic instead of the ridiculous MPG that they used to advertise. The same needs to happen with E cars.

 

[Trav]

When the company has in their owners manual to use the steering wheel and seat heater and turn off the main heat to improve range in cold weather anyone with more than 1 brain cell knows something is not kosher.

 

[Torrid]

When the company has in their owners manual to use the steering wheel and seat heater and turn off the main heat to improve range in cold weather anyone with more than 1 brain cell knows something is not kosher.

You're blowing this way out of proportion. All that is being said is that it is more efficient to use the steering wheel and seat heater over raising the heat on the climate control. It by no means says you can't use the climate control. I use it all because I don't compromise on my comfort.

Your ICE car wastes energy through heat when it's hot out. This is just the obvious answer that since it doesn't have much waste heat, the heat has to be generated somehow. Can we try using some objective common sense or are you trying to see how long you can beat the dead horse of nonsense?

 

[y_p_w]

You're blowing this way out of proportion. All that is being said is that it is more efficient to use the steering wheel and seat heater over raising the heat on the climate control. It by no means says you can't use the climate control. I use it all because I don't compromise on my comfort.

Your ICE car wastes energy through heat when it's hot out. This is just the obvious answer that since it doesn't have much waste heat, the heat has to be generated somehow. Can we try using some objective common sense or are you trying to see how long you can beat the dead horse of nonsense?

An ICE engine wastes heat all the time if it's running and at stable operating conditions. Even at ambient freezing temperatures. But I guess when it is freezing that can be recovered.

I don't know if EVs are perfect for all conditions, but they're pretty good in my area. Lots of hills and few temperature extremes.

Strangely enough, I'm wondering if the eSprinter is going to be suitable for something like an RV conversion. There are already several camper conversions. Not sure if Westfalia still does, but then there's Winnebago's, although that's pretty pricey. That would be a sweet ride, and they could do interesting stuff with the battery powering maybe a stove.

 

[BISCUT]

You have the essence of EV ownership. You do almost all of your charging at home. To maximize the life of your battery you usually only charge to 80%.

You would only charge at a for pay station on a trip and then you make the best use of your time by working in the middle and the bottom of the battery. You have to be a bit organized on a trip. We stayed at hotels with a charger nearby and (while relaxing at the hotel) charged up to 90% for a good start the next day. Your cell phone tells you when it's done so you go and move your car. And Tesla can charge you by the minute (after a short grace period) if you're plugged in but not charging. On our long trip we never had to wait to use a charger.

EVs aren't optimal for long distance traveling but they are acceptable and they're actually better than an ICE for local use or reasonable commutes.

I don’t find them “acceptable” for a family trip. I see the value living in an urban environment if home charging for daily driver duties.

For me to drop that coin, need more! More reliable range throughout a 150k - 200k life and a quicker charge for long trips.

 

[demarpaint]

You don't live in CA... Just kidding!
But gas can easily be 50 cents or far more per gallon. I think the Chevron around the corner could be $1.00 more than the Costco I hit yesterday to fill the TSX with 91* and shop for whatever.

You're right I don't and I must say I'm happy about that.

 

[Torrid]

I don’t find them “acceptable” for a family trip. I see the value living in an urban environment if home charging for daily driver duties.

For me to drop that coin, need more! More reliable range throughout a 150k - 200k life and a quicker charge for long trips.

You’ll get a 200k mile life out of it. A faster charge would always be welcome. I find it works fine for a family trip because everyone wants to stop more than I want to, so that’s when we plug in.

 

[97prizm]

Wow, can't say I ever thought that would happen!

https://driveteslacanada.ca/news/pe...-ev-charging-fee-increase-across-the-country/

It was bound to happen. You can't subsidize ev's forever. Look at China when they started allowing gas vehicles. They were paying 40-50 cents per gallon when everyone else was paying $2 plus a gallon. The Chinese government realized that this can't continue to happen. The USA has 333 million people and 130ish million vehicles. I had an uncle who always complained about "big oil" due to diesel prices going up around the 4th etc. Just wait till the majority are ev's. People will complain about "Big electricity. "

 

[97prizm]

I think all other brands do. VAG for certain does.
Edit: Google says Hyundai does not, yet.

Mercedes Benz is already ahead of Tesla with limited level 3 automated driving aids in a few vehicles. From what it sounds like in Las Vegas and parts of Nevada with California and other markets soon. Just because a few on here put the Muskrat and Co. On a pedestal doesn't mean long term success (hopefully). If you told someone 80 years ago that Sears, Montgomery Wards, and Beatrice Foods would largely be gone by 2023 they would have told you that you were crazy.

 

[97prizm]

The term genius is WAY overused these days... I'd consider him an arrogant, childish buffoon and not much else.

Yeah hopefully his days in the sun will be soon gone. Tesla really needs a leader not a buffoon who the cult of Elon fawns over. Elon very much reminds me of Marshall Applewhite.

 

[Torrid]

Mercedes Benz is already ahead of Tesla with limited level 3 automated driving aids in a few vehicles. From what it sounds like in Las Vegas and parts of Nevada with California and other markets soon. Just because a few on here put the Muskrat and Co. On a pedestal doesn't mean long term success (hopefully). If you told someone 80 years ago that Sears, Montgomery Wards, and Beatrice Foods would largely be gone by 2023 they would have told you that you were crazy.

That's precisely the problem with AutoPilot. They don't want to go out and geofence routes to actually automate the system like Mercedes did. Mercedes is the first big manufacturer to get there. The people that think Tesla's approach is going to get them to full automation any time soon without geofencing are delusional.

 

[97prizm]

That's precisely the problem with AutoPilot. They don't want to go out and geofence routes to actually automate the system like Mercedes did. Mercedes is the first big manufacturer to get there. The people that think Tesla's approach is going to get them to full automation any time soon without geofencing are delusional.

Tesla engineers have repeatedly said that once they removed radar from the vehicles that the accident per mile rate went up. Bats can "see" in pitch black caves humans can't. For some reason the Muskrat doesn't listen to anything Tesla engineers say, yet many look at him like he's some deity or martyr. The idea that Musk wants Tesla vehicles to "learn" is insane. I've said for years that the roads will also have to be adapted for autonomous vehicles as they were designed in the 50's.