Perpetuating the cold idle myths

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: metalboy
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Where do they get the electric from ?


There's a few thousand years worth of uranium out there.


Note when anyone says that, there's usually the fine print "at current rates of usage"...

With economic growth of 3% that economists require to stop the debt money snake from catching it's tail, within 20 years, 2,000 becomes 1,000. Next 20 the 1,000 becomes 500, next 20 is only 200 year, so the "thousands" can be used in under 100 years.

Throw in a step change shifting transport onto electric...

 

[Clevy]

Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Originally Posted By: Clevy
I've been letting my charger run for half an hour before moving these past few weeks of brutal cold we've had. I pay for the gas and I'd rather hop in to a warm car than freeze my tail of for half an hour.
I couldn't care less what the bitog police think of my starting procedure. Go outside in -35c and then chirp.


Does your car have a block heater? Did you ever think it might be useful if you're routinely encountering such temperatures?



Standard equipment on a Canadian purchased car. Not that it matters. At -30 and colder my breath frosts the windows,unless of course I turn on the fan which then blows -30 or colder air at my face.
Not to mention the whine of the power steering and my transmission refusing to shift because the engine is trying to heat everything as quickly as possible therefore increasing the rpm of the engine before shifting,which in my opinion increases wear because the oil is too cold to do much.

At -30 and not plugged in my car won't start. The started disengages and won't keep turning.
And my commute is 45 minutes on the highway try dressing for -30 then the heat finally starts pumping. Forget it.
I like to drive. At these temps that I live thru daily I'm not about to try and justify my behaviour.
For anyone complaining try living it for more than a day,just try it. Till then your opinion is nothing but blather.
Just sayin

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: Clevy
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Originally Posted By: Clevy
I've been letting my charger run for half an hour before moving these past few weeks of brutal cold we've had. I pay for the gas and I'd rather hop in to a warm car than freeze my tail of for half an hour.
I couldn't care less what the bitog police think of my starting procedure. Go outside in -35c and then chirp.


Does your car have a block heater? Did you ever think it might be useful if you're routinely encountering such temperatures?



Standard equipment on a Canadian purchased car. Not that it matters. At -30 and colder my breath frosts the windows,unless of course I turn on the fan which then blows -30 or colder air at my face.
Not to mention the whine of the power steering and my transmission refusing to shift because the engine is trying to heat everything as quickly as possible therefore increasing the rpm of the engine before shifting,which in my opinion increases wear because the oil is too cold to do much.

At -30 and not plugged in my car won't start. The started disengages and won't keep turning.
And my commute is 45 minutes on the highway try dressing for -30 then the heat finally starts pumping. Forget it.
I like to drive. At these temps that I live thru daily I'm not about to try and justify my behaviour.
For anyone complaining try living it for more than a day,just try it. Till then your opinion is nothing but blather.
Just sayin


Did you see my recent CCS/MRV thread? I had a -30C start yesterday AM with no block heater or anything going on (and that's true ambient not wind chill, which was like -40 something).

The truck started. But it wasn't happy.

 

[Clevy]

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: Clevy
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Originally Posted By: Clevy
I've been letting my charger run for half an hour before moving these past few weeks of brutal cold we've had. I pay for the gas and I'd rather hop in to a warm car than freeze my tail of for half an hour.
I couldn't care less what the bitog police think of my starting procedure. Go outside in -35c and then chirp.


Does your car have a block heater? Did you ever think it might be useful if you're routinely encountering such temperatures?



Standard equipment on a Canadian purchased car. Not that it matters. At -30 and colder my breath frosts the windows,unless of course I turn on the fan which then blows -30 or colder air at my face.
Not to mention the whine of the power steering and my transmission refusing to shift because the engine is trying to heat everything as quickly as possible therefore increasing the rpm of the engine before shifting,which in my opinion increases wear because the oil is too cold to do much.

At -30 and not plugged in my car won't start. The started disengages and won't keep turning.
And my commute is 45 minutes on the highway try dressing for -30 then the heat finally starts pumping. Forget it.
I like to drive. At these temps that I live thru daily I'm not about to try and justify my behaviour.
For anyone complaining try living it for more than a day,just try it. Till then your opinion is nothing but blather.
Just sayin


Did you see my recent CCS/MRV thread? I had a -30C start yesterday AM with no block heater or anything going on (and that's true ambient not wind chill, which was like -40 something).

The truck started. But it wasn't happy.



Hehehe. I've learned here that ambient is all that is important and the explanations I got as to why sound credible so I'll believe it.
-30 is painfully cold.

 

[mjk]

Originally Posted By: dparm
I didn't start this thread to debate the issue, but rather to vent/rant about how an organization claiming to be experts in car maintenance is giving incorrect information to people.


So, the appropriate procedure for your Audi is the same as my 18 year old V6 Camry. Sorry, absolutely not. My cold idle in this weather is 2200RPM. Yep, Yota 1mzfe had high cold idles. I am not about to slam it into gear at 2200 rpm, nor feel that 2-3 minutes of idling a car with 200k, is inappropriate.

 

[Jarlaxle]

Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: metalboy
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Where do they get the electric from ?


There's a few thousand years worth of uranium out there.


Note when anyone says that, there's usually the fine print "at current rates of usage"...

With economic growth of 3% that economists require to stop the debt money snake from catching it's tail, within 20 years, 2,000 becomes 1,000. Next 20 the 1,000 becomes 500, next 20 is only 200 year, so the "thousands" can be used in under 100 years.

Throw in a step change shifting transport onto electric...


There's probably 100 years worth of uranium just from reprocessing spent reactor fuel rods! Dump President Peanuthead's ban, reprocess it, and PRESTO! Waste is reduced by 70+%, and there's LOTS of fresh reactor fuel!

 

[Jarlaxle]

-16 this morning...my Dakota fired right up on the first crank without any problem. Idled it about a minute, drove gently until it warmed up. Oil is Valvoline 5w30 conventional, nothing at all exotic. Liz's Blazer was plugged in for an hour, it fired right up.

My work truck wouldn't start, probably because the engine (7.2 Cat) has low compression.

 

[Duffman77]

Originally Posted By: Clevy
Originally Posted By: JHZR2


Does your car have a block heater? Did you ever think it might be useful if you're routinely encountering such temperatures?



Standard equipment on a Canadian purchased car.


I have seen an Ontario Honda that didn’t have them from the factory.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Did you see my recent CCS/MRV thread? I had a -30C start yesterday AM with no block heater or anything going on (and that's true ambient not wind chill, which was like -40 something).

It's been my experience spending my life in this province that starting success at very cold temperatures (i.e. -30 C and colder) is vehicle specific. As long as the battery is in good shape and I'm running 5w30, the F-150 will start unaided as cold as it gets here. Even poorly designed carbs sometimes work well.

The Town Car wasn't bad, but it definitely wasn't happy. The LTD was atrocious (thanks to LPG), and battery condition and oil choice made little difference. If it was -20 C out and it wasn't plugged in, it wasn't moving.

 

[KrisZ]

Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Did you see my recent CCS/MRV thread? I had a -30C start yesterday AM with no block heater or anything going on (and that's true ambient not wind chill, which was like -40 something).

It's been my experience spending my life in this province that starting success at very cold temperatures (i.e. -30 C and colder) is vehicle specific. As long as the battery is in good shape and I'm running 5w30, the F-150 will start unaided as cold as it gets here. Even poorly designed carbs sometimes work well.

The Town Car wasn't bad, but it definitely wasn't happy. The LTD was atrocious (thanks to LPG), and battery condition and oil choice made little difference. If it was -20 C out and it wasn't plugged in, it wasn't moving.


Totally agree. The importance of oil for cold starts is really blown out of proportion here. Keep in mind that I'm talking about using manufacturers approved grades here.

 

[SLCraig]

I'm a turn key and drive type, but if it's super freezing cold I'll let it warm up so that I'm not a popsicle while driving.

 

[whip]

Zero and below, idling makes sense. The ones I'm always perplexed by are the ones that think 28 is cold, and you have to idle for 5-10 minutes before driving. Of course they're the same ones that usually complain about the cost of gas and drive an SUV.

 

[KrisZ]

Originally Posted By: whip
Zero and below, idling makes sense. The ones I'm always perplexed by are the ones that think 28 is cold, and you have to idle for 5-10 minutes before driving. Of course they're the same ones that usually complain about the cost of gas and drive an SUV.


Incidentally, I have few neighbours that idle their cars excessively, in the 15-30 minute time frame when it's barley below freezing, and their cars sound horrible when started cold, even during summer.
My 95 Accord and current Ford Focus also sounded/sound pretty bad when cold. Their prior owners took good care of them and I have a suspicion that they warmed up their cars quite extensively, since it's generally considered to be a good practice.
My 92 Corsica and now my Mazda were never idled for more that 5 minutes and their cold start characteristics were/are much better.

It's just my own observation, but I don't think excessive idling is all that good for the engine.

 

[TFB1]

Originally Posted By: KrisZ
Originally Posted By: whip
Zero and below, idling makes sense. The ones I'm always perplexed by are the ones that think 28 is cold, and you have to idle for 5-10 minutes before driving. Of course they're the same ones that usually complain about the cost of gas and drive an SUV.


Incidentally, I have few neighbours that idle their cars excessively, in the 15-30 minute time frame when it's barley below freezing, and their cars sound horrible when started cold, even during summer.
My 95 Accord and current Ford Focus also sounded/sound pretty bad when cold. Their prior owners took good care of them and I have a suspicion that they warmed up their cars quite extensively, since it's generally considered to be a good practice.
My 92 Corsica and now my Mazda were never idled for more that 5 minutes and their cold start characteristics were/are much better.

It's just my own observation, but I don't think excessive idling is all that good for the engine.


And that's your basis for the OPINION that idling a few minutes is bad??? Do they ever change oil??? Are they using correct grade???

I've been idling my vehicles when cold(like below 50F)for 47+ years and none has ever had a issue...

 

[Mel12]

I like to run out start it and let it idle for 30 minutes before going. Not for the car, but because I don't like being cold.

+1 Gets all the ice off so you don't have to scrape too! On another note of super cold mornings like it has been lately I'll let the diesel tractors run for at least 15 min just too make sure the hydraulics are flowing good and the fuel won't gel up before I hay cows. I have just started a tractor and backed it out of the shed and then have the fuel line gel.

 

[Duffman77]

Originally Posted By: KrisZ

Incidentally, I have few neighbours that idle their cars excessively, in the 15-30 minute time frame when it's barley below freezing,


I marvel on how many neighbours I have had that do the same thing but will also never plug the block heater in. A lot of people complain about the price of gas, well it still must not be that high given peoples behaviour.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: KrisZ
Totally agree. The importance of oil for cold starts is really blown out of proportion here. Keep in mind that I'm talking about using manufacturers approved grades here.

Yep, as long as it's something sensible. While the F-150 starts well unaided, I prefer to use the block heater and permanent mount battery charger. It starts absolutely immediately, then, even below -40. As for LPG, if it isn't plugged in, you simply can't go if the ambient temperatures are below the boiling point of LPG. The trick that LPG cars used to do here under such conditions were to dump boiling hot kettles of water on the mixers. Of course, plugging them in at the outset saved one from such measures.

 

[Oldswagon]

Originally Posted By: Duffman77


I have seen an Ontario Honda that didn’t have them from the factory.


Most southern Ontario vehicles do not have block heaters. But it seems rare for that part of the province to hit -20C these days. I bought my truck used from southern Ontario and it didn't have one, but I installed one. None of my family who lives down there don't have them on there cars either.

We saw just shy of -40 last week. And although most cars with decent batteries would start, it is much easier on the engine to use a block heater. I haven't seen anyone start and drive instantly at these temperatures. I remember my old Olds Delta 88 would even fire up at these cold temperatures unassisted with a Q-jet carb, but I usually plugged it in if I could. Just because it can start doesn't meant it's a good idea.

I typically am not an idler (many people around here idle 10 min + even in mild temperatures). I will start, and be moving in 30 seconds or less. I do try to use the block heater, which does aid fuel economy and reduce the warm up time. However, a block heater in very cold temps does not mean instant heat - far from it. They certainly do make the engine turn over far easier though.

When the temperatures get cold, -25C or colder, I will warm up my vehicles for a few minutes. At these temperature it seems to help to run the car for a few minutes so everything gets flowing and moving before you put a load on the engine/accessories. Our work vehicles idle for countless hours as people don't want cold cars. Other than the high fuel bills, they don't seem to have any negative long term effects.

 

[OVERKILL]

Comically enough the Expedition, which came from Toronto, has a block heater (as did my old Town Car), whilst the M5, which came from Alberta, doesn't have one, LOL!

 

[IndyIan]

I have to say I am impressed with the cold flow properties of 5w20 conventional. Ford started quite well in -30C. Also I now have an appreciation for heated seats, just need a heated steering wheel and -25C+ won't even require gloves anymore!
My trick in the morning is too preheat myself for a minute or two by putting on my winter coat and toque, then when I go outside its nice and your hands don't get cold for quite a while even without gloves.