Perpetuating the cold idle myths

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Originally Posted By: metalboy
Originally Posted By: itguy08
Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle

I jumped the interlock on my F-350. No, I do NOT want my 3000+lb pressure plate pushing on the thrust bearing at 15 degrees and zero oil pressure!


Since when are throwout bearings lubed by engine oil? Aren't they all sealed units?


Throwout bearings in the transmission are (or at least should be!) sealed roller units. He's worried about the crankshaft thrust bearing.


Every starting procedure I've seen in the owners manuals say to press clutch in to reduce drag on the starter from the gears turning in the manual trans grease...

To use one of the BITOG favorites, guess the engineers that designed it have no clue what they are talking about...
 
Originally Posted By: TFB1
Originally Posted By: metalboy
Originally Posted By: itguy08
Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle

I jumped the interlock on my F-350. No, I do NOT want my 3000+lb pressure plate pushing on the thrust bearing at 15 degrees and zero oil pressure!


Since when are throwout bearings lubed by engine oil? Aren't they all sealed units?


Throwout bearings in the transmission are (or at least should be!) sealed roller units. He's worried about the crankshaft thrust bearing.


Every starting procedure I've seen in the owners manuals say to press clutch in to reduce drag on the starter from the gears turning in the manual trans grease...

To use one of the BITOG favorites, guess the engineers that designed it have no clue what they are talking about...


I didn't say I agreed with him. I said that's what he's worried about.
 
I'll admit I idle my car for a while in the extreme cold we've been having, for a couple of reasons...

The CD4E transmission in my high-mile Tribute is well-worn, and won't even go into gear for about 5 mins when it is very cold out. I'm not pulling out into traffic at any speed and having my transmission not shift right.

I personally think it is safer to let the car warm up a bit, b\c then the defogger can keep the windows inside free of ice from the occupants breath, coffee...etc...

Ever gotten into a car at -20 with a warm cup of coffee and seen how fast the windows ice over? Heater has to be warm to keep that stuff off the glass.
 
I've been letting my charger run for half an hour before moving these past few weeks of brutal cold we've had. I pay for the gas and I'd rather hop in to a warm car than freeze my tail of for half an hour.
I couldn't care less what the bitog police think of my starting procedure. Go outside in -35c and then chirp.
 
Originally Posted By: TFB1
Originally Posted By: metalboy
Originally Posted By: itguy08
Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle

I jumped the interlock on my F-350. No, I do NOT want my 3000+lb pressure plate pushing on the thrust bearing at 15 degrees and zero oil pressure!


Since when are throwout bearings lubed by engine oil? Aren't they all sealed units?


Throwout bearings in the transmission are (or at least should be!) sealed roller units. He's worried about the crankshaft thrust bearing.


Every starting procedure I've seen in the owners manuals say to press clutch in to reduce drag on the starter from the gears turning in the manual trans grease...

To use one of the BITOG favorites, guess the engineers that designed it have no clue what they are talking about...


Whoever made up THAT excuse for pressing the clutch in needs his papers taken off him...drag on a manual transmission in neutral is next to nothing...you can spin them with your hand.

I can get the stupid punched in garage door argument, but you have to be pretty brain dead to do that.

Part of 4WD control is being able to start the car in gear with the clutch engaged to control ascent or descent...Aussies would pitch a fit if they took that ability off them.

(Yes my worry, like I stated, was dry thrust bearings, not throwout).
 
Crank stationary, and thrust bearing sitting there with any lubricant that it did have residualy squeezed out due to the action of the throwout bearing against the pressure plate.

Can't be completely dry, but is way drier than all those people wanting to run 20s for "flow"..."flow" cannot get to the thrust bearing until the thrust is off it again, after the car turns some tens to hundreds of revs
 
Originally Posted By: KrisZ
Can someone explain to me how a thrust bearing would be dry?


I had it happen once.

I was driving a 1990 VW Fox (made in Brazil by AutoLatino). It developed a noise when the clutch was disengaged.

The shop pulled the transaxle and found the thrust bearing bone dry.

They asked me, given it had 140k miles on it, when the clutch had been replaced. I said "never", it was the original clutch.

When they asked how I managed that, I took the service manager for a short drive demonstrating speed shifting and double clutch downshifting without the clutch.




.
 
It doesn't matter what I think about cold starts.

The wife's Maxx is 10 years old and my daughter's Olds is 20. If they can see out the window, they start and go. The cah's haven't blow up yet, so it can't be too to detrimental.
 
Originally Posted By: KrisZ
They can't be all that dry since in Canada it's mandatory to have the clutch switch for starting and we don't have an epidemic of failed thrust bearings.


My F-350 had that. Key word: HAD!
 
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Whoever made up THAT excuse for pressing the clutch in needs his papers taken off him...drag on a manual transmission in neutral is next to nothing...you can spin them with your hand.


Under normal circumstances I agree with you. However, have you ever experiences temperatures of -30C or colder? Many cars at these temperatures barely have enough power to turn over the engine, let a lone an engine and a manual trans full of thick as molasses gear oil. At these temperatures it could be the difference between the car starting or not. You wouldn't believe how "sluggish" a driveline gets at these temperatures until they are driven and warm up. Heck, the seats are rock hard, suspension barely moves and even the tires will freeze with flat spots until they get moving.
 
I second the hopping into a warm(er) car and not worrying about the gas. Right now it is -2 degrees (I know Canada and the mid-west get colder), and it will get even colder by morning, but my cars sound noticeably smoother after a 10 minute warmup in this kind of weather. If I didn't have some heat before I left the driveway, frost would cover the windshield. My GM 3800 deals with the cold pretty good. Not so quiet with my Slap-erado 5.3 though:) Our diesel tractors at work actually cool down alot if on slow idle after working them for 4 hrs. Medium engine speed idling keeps them normal temps. during our lunches. My wife just jumps in her car with little or no warm up and then complains her car was "making funny noises this morning". True story just 20 minutes ago. FWIW, I let mine run 10 minutes in temps this cold. The quart of gas is WELL worth it.
Originally Posted By: Clevy
I've been letting my charger run for half an hour before moving these past few weeks of brutal cold we've had. I pay for the gas and I'd rather hop in to a warm car than freeze my tail of for half an hour.
I couldn't care less what the bitog police think of my starting procedure. Go outside in -35c and then chirp.
 
Originally Posted By: Oldswagon
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Whoever made up THAT excuse for pressing the clutch in needs his papers taken off him...drag on a manual transmission in neutral is next to nothing...you can spin them with your hand.


Under normal circumstances I agree with you. However, have you ever experiences temperatures of -30C or colder? Many cars at these temperatures barely have enough power to turn over the engine, let a lone an engine and a manual trans full of thick as molasses gear oil. At these temperatures it could be the difference between the car starting or not. You wouldn't believe how "sluggish" a driveline gets at these temperatures until they are driven and warm up. Heck, the seats are rock hard, suspension barely moves and even the tires will freeze with flat spots until they get moving.


+1
Some cars will even stall if the clutch is released right after the start and it's cold enough. I just don't see the problem with disengaging the clutch during starts.
 
May not be needed, but a warm car on a cold morning is worth the tiny amount of gas it takes.
It was -10F on our thermometer this morning at 5:30 AM.
I started the '12 Accord as my wife got in the shower, figuring she'd be gone within
15-20 minutes.
She was.
I then started the '02 Accord I've driven the last couple of days before taking a shower, figuring I'd be on my way in around twenty minutes.
Worked out that way.
I don't expect my wife to freeze in a cold car and I don't intend to either.
They don't warm up at idle?
Nonsense!
 
Originally Posted By: KrisZ
They can't be all that dry since in Canada it's mandatory to have the clutch switch for starting and we don't have an epidemic of failed thrust bearings.


Funny how on this board it has to be 'epidemic'...'pile of failed...'...etc.
 
Originally Posted By: KrisZ
Originally Posted By: Oldswagon
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Whoever made up THAT excuse for pressing the clutch in needs his papers taken off him...drag on a manual transmission in neutral is next to nothing...you can spin them with your hand.


Under normal circumstances I agree with you. However, have you ever experiences temperatures of -30C or colder? Many cars at these temperatures barely have enough power to turn over the engine, let a lone an engine and a manual trans full of thick as molasses gear oil. At these temperatures it could be the difference between the car starting or not. You wouldn't believe how "sluggish" a driveline gets at these temperatures until they are driven and warm up. Heck, the seats are rock hard, suspension barely moves and even the tires will freeze with flat spots until they get moving.


+1
Some cars will even stall if the clutch is released right after the start and it's cold enough. I just don't see the problem with disengaging the clutch during starts.


And people choose to live in these places ???
 
My '10 F150 is slow to warm up...if ice in the a.m. have to run for 5-10 mins before defrost will clear windshield. I , however am lucky in that, my employer puts in all my gas, and typically my shortest drive is at least an hr plus one way at steady cruise. Fuel dilution should not be a problem...that cold start valve train tap now...that's a different story
smile.gif
 
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