Per manual instructions???

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quote:
Originally posted by The Critic:
The manual's recommendations are fine for 95% of the users who wish to keep their cars for 150-200K.

I'd do an initial rear differential fluid replacement @ 30K with full-synthetic 75w90 to remove any debris generated during wear-in. Thereafter, change the fluid every 100K. Full synthetic gear lubes will last a long time provided that the unit is not submerged in water.

Same applies for the transmission. The newer Dexron-VI or even Dexron-IIIH fluids are designed to be a "fill-for-life" fluid. Do a pan drop/filter change @ 30K to remove any wear metals generated during wear-in, then do a pan/filter change every every 50K thereafter if the vehicle is used for extensive city stop-and-go driving, otherwise, every 75-100K is fine.

However, I will caution you in advance that while the newer fluids are able to handle the long drain intervals and still provide good anti-wear protection to the transmission, shift quality WILL suffer during these longer drains. The transmission will be protected fine, but you will not experience the smoothest shift quality. There won't be a sudden loss in shift quality, but a very slow loss of shift quality. The difference will only be noticed after a fresh fluid change.

If you wish to obtain optimal shift quality, I'd suggest doing a full 16 quart flush with new Dexron-VI (in the future) every 30,000 miles, but service the pan/filter every three flushes.

All major brand, over-the-counter Dexron III fluids are licensed for the H revision. Pennzoil, Chevron, and Valvoline are just three. If in doubt, call the toll-free # listed on the back of the bottle to ask if the product is licensed for the H revision of Dexron III and ask for the GM licensing #. Mobil 1 Multi-Vehicle ATF is licensed for Dexron IIIH, by the way.

Redline (RL) and Amsoil's fluids both meet Dexron IIIH specs but are not licensed for them. The primary difference between Dexron IIIG and Dexron IIIH is the usage of Group II or better baseoils in Dexron IIIH. Both of these products use a synthetic basestock that should surpass the Dexron IIIH requirement with regard to basestocks. All fluid blenders (Valvoline, Pennzoil,etc) will purchase an "approved" additive pack from a supplier (i.e. Lubrizol, Infineum, Afton, etc) that will meet the requirements for a Dexron IIIH specs. The only difference between Amsoil's products and M1's product, is quite possibly that Amsoil did not submit their product to GM for testing as they refuse to pay the testing and product royalty fees. The product contains the necessary ingredients, but it just doesn't have the stamp of approval. Same probably applies to Redline.

However, if I'd were you, use Dexron-VI instead. While it isn't full synthetic, it will be a step up from a mineral Dexron-IIIH fluid yet still costing significantly less than a synthetic Dexron IIIH fluid. Dexron-VI costs about $5.00/qt including shipping from a major online GM parts store.
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I still don't know what the differences are in layman's terms between Amsoil vs. Redline. I have used Redline in my other car with great success and it is easier to obtain than Amsoil. Yet at the same time I wouldn't mind trying out Amsoil.
The corvette person basically said the same as you have on the intervals. Using the Dexron 6 or 3(h) is a sure thing to protect the warranty and I would have dealership do the work to ensure that. Based on my driving style the Corvette person said it would be a waste of $$$ for me to do a initial early change so soon but just to wait and do both at 25,000 miles. It was pointed out too I will not notice a difference in regards to synthetics because I'm not racing it or pushing it into those higher temps and ditto for longetivity of components.
As far as shift quality this is for an automatic so would it still apply to an auto trans? I already know and can tell the difference on a manual trans. The dealership charges 25.00 per qt.(which brand
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No one seems to know
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) and 2 quarts are needed for this car which is 75w/90 synthetic from factory.
The ATF fluid is something like 2.00 per quart and they said they could get all of the transmission fluid out with powerflush so it could take up to 14 quarts but capacity on auto trans is close to 12 quarts.
AS far as licensing goes I talked to the GM representative who issues the licenses and he told me he did not issue Redline a license and he wouldn't use that "if you paid him to do so" In regards to meeting the Dexron III (h)specs. GM licensing rep said any of these oil companies can make the "claim" without a license but ask Redline if they will pay for your warranty?
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Licensing is nothing but OEM arm twisting. Small companies shouldn't have to pay the bribes. The aftermarket boutique fluids are so far ahead of OEM licensing that its not even funny. I've been using and recommending these unlicensed fluids for 20+ years.
We've all watched the silly OEM spec changes. Most brands, including the OEM stuff, need complete formula changes with every upgrade.

Just take a look at the Dexron spec. It started as a group 1 garbage oil. And, slowly moved up to higher percentages of group 1+, 2, 2+,.... and dexron-6 FINALLY supposedly has a reasonable percentage of Group III basestocks. Amsoil/Redline had better performance 20 years ago from their Group IV/V formulas.

Talk to any rep you want. GM needs to worry about leaky intakes, poor sales, low quality, bankruptcy, and should quit fooling with fluid specs. GM thinking: too cheap to add adequate oil cooling, mandate a synthetic motor oil
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DexronVI is great. But, what is the true reason for this spec. Research it. Hint: inadequate ATF sump size and cooling
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It'll take 5+ years before we see the affects of Dex VI. Aamco and Cottman employees will be happy
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Like I said before, UOA that ATF and rearend oil. Pay extra for a particle counts and TBN/TAN.
Then take those reports to that GM rep and ask him to explain the numbers. You might need to pull his head out of his arse to help him explain!
 
quote:
Originally posted by unDummy:
Licensing is nothing but OEM arm twisting. Small companies shouldn't have to pay the bribes. The aftermarket boutique fluids are so far ahead of OEM licensing that its not even funny. I've been using and recommending these unlicensed fluids for 20+ years.
We've all watched the silly OEM spec changes. Most brands, including the OEM stuff, need complete formula changes with every upgrade.

Just take a look at the Dexron spec. It started as a group 1 garbage oil. And, slowly moved up to higher percentages of group 1+, 2, 2+,.... and dexron-6 FINALLY supposedly has a reasonable percentage of Group III basestocks. Amsoil/Redline had better performance 20 years ago from their Group IV/V formulas.

Talk to any rep you want. GM needs to worry about leaky intakes, poor sales, low quality, bankruptcy, and should quit fooling with fluid specs. GM thinking: too cheap to add adequate oil cooling, mandate a synthetic motor oil
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DexronVI is great. But, what is the true reason for this spec. Research it. Hint: inadequate ATF sump size and cooling
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It'll take 5+ years before we see the affects of Dex VI. Aamco and Cottman employees will be happy
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Like I said before, UOA that ATF and rearend oil. Pay extra for a particle counts and TBN/TAN.
Then take those reports to that GM rep and ask him to explain the numbers. You might need to pull his head out of his arse to help him explain!
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The way the GM rep put down Redline so bad had me very suspicious. Exactly what you said
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is happening, I notice GM parts constantly changing just within one model year like the magnets oil drain plugs just becoming available for the 2005 Corvette when it was already on Chev. trucks a few years ago. What gives? The Corvette is suppose to be the flagship of Chevy
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So now we had Dexron III then h and now Dexron 6
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I wonder whatelse will change in the parts/replacement in the course of the year as it seems to be GM is always updating their products and that is nicely said in plain terms. I still prefer the idea of putting in Redline or Amsoil fluids that meet/exceed OEM specs.
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Change your rear end fluid after break-in at around 5,000 miles. Look at the "glitter" in the oil. Do you really want that stuff in there any longer? It may last longer but why take a chance. I know GM wants to sell you a new car as soon as the warranty on yours is done. Wonder why there are "fill for life" fluids?
 
quote:
Originally posted by Stooge:
Change your rear end fluid after break-in at around 5,000 miles. Look at the "glitter" in the oil. Do you really want that stuff in there any longer? It may last longer but why take a chance. I know GM wants to sell you a new car as soon as the warranty on yours is done. Wonder why there are "fill for life" fluids?
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Well it is because it is a Corvette so if it ain't broke don't fix it attitude comes to mind as I don't want to create my own problems.
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Dexron-VI is the latest revision of Dexron. It is backwards compatible with all applications requiring Dexron. Prior to Dexron-VI's release, Dexron-III(H) was the latest revision of Dexron. All Dexron-III made within the last 18 months or so is of the H revision. Confirm with the product's manufacturer and request for the license # if you are uncertain.

Dexron-VI is a part synthetic product. Group II/III I believe. There's no point in switching to Dexron-VI with a powerflush. Just use it when you're due for a transmission service. If you decide to go the powerflush route, just make sure the dealership does not use any transmission cleaners or conditioners. They are very popular but are not always in the best interest of your transmission.

The smaller blenders simply cannot afford to pay the licensing costs. It's a $$$ issue.

Also, transmissions assembled at the factory are built under much cleaner conditions than in the aftermarket shops. Thus, there should be very little contamination in the unit caused by assembly.
 
quote:
Originally posted by The Critic:
Dexron-VI is the latest revision of Dexron. It is backwards compatible with all applications requiring Dexron. Prior to Dexron-VI's release, Dexron-III(H) was the latest revision of Dexron. All Dexron-III made within the last 18 months or so is of the H revision. Confirm with the product's manufacturer and request for the license # if you are uncertain.

Dexron-VI is a part synthetic product. Group II/III I believe. There's no point in switching to Dexron-VI with a powerflush. Just use it when you're due for a transmission service. If you decide to go the powerflush route, just make sure the dealership does not use any transmission cleaners or conditioners. They are very popular but are not always in the best interest of your transmission.

The smaller blenders simply cannot afford to pay the licensing costs. It's a $$$ issue.

Also, transmissions assembled at the factory are built under much cleaner conditions than in the aftermarket shops. Thus, there should be very little contamination in the unit caused by assembly.
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Do you think Amsoil or Redline is better?
 
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Well it looks like I'll just follow the manual and my dealership which is a little more sooner on changes in all fluids. The Corvette tech knows my style of driving.
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I'm no expert on automatic transmissions, but from what I do know, you can't get ALL the transmission fluid out with a 'power flush'. Some of the original fluid is/stays in the pan.
The lines and most of the fluid in the torque converter are flushed, but not all.
Dropping the pan and changing the filter only gets 4 quarts(+/-) out.
Hobson's choice.

Any trans. experts or technitions out there?
 
Corvette tech at dealership told me they do a powerflush and they get all of that fluid out. All I have to do is decide what I want to put in Dexron 6 or Amsoil?
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Here's what I know:

Most GM RWD units remove 40-50% with a pan drop/filter change. FWD units remove between 50-60% with a pan drop/filter change.

Most Ford FWD units remove around 50% with a pan drop/filter change. RWD units remove between 40-50%.

Toyota AW FWD units will remove between 40-50% with a pan drain. RWD units will remove only 1/3.

All Honda units remove between 40-45% with a drain and refill.

"Neutral" transmission fluid exchanges will remove between 80-90% of the fluid, depending on the amount of new fluid run through the lines. To get a good dilution, you need to run through an amount of new fluid equal to the transmission's capacity + 1/3. Personally, if you can replace about 80-85% of the fluid, it's good enough in my book.

As for what fluid you'd want to install, Dexron-VI would get my vote.
 
quote:
Originally posted by The Critic:
Here's what I know:

Most GM RWD units remove 40-50% with a pan drop/filter change. FWD units remove between 50-60% with a pan drop/filter change.

Most Ford FWD units remove around 50% with a pan drop/filter change. RWD units remove between 40-50%.

Toyota AW FWD units will remove between 40-50% with a pan drain. RWD units will remove only 1/3.

All Honda units remove between 40-45% with a drain and refill.

"Neutral" transmission fluid exchanges will remove between 80-90% of the fluid, depending on the amount of new fluid run through the lines. To get a good dilution, you need to run through an amount of new fluid equal to the transmission's capacity + 1/3. Personally, if you can replace about 80-85% of the fluid, it's good enough in my book.

As for what fluid you'd want to install, Dexron-VI would get my vote.
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So even though my manual calls for Dexron III (h) whith is not semi synthetic but a regular ATF it is better to still use the Dexron 6 as opposed to using what was original from the factory? It is ok to use a synthetic over a transmission that came with regular ATF Dexron III (h)?
I am not sure if dealer will automatically put the Dexron 6 in if they have both fluids but I believe I read a bulletin that says Dexron 6 replaces all prior Dexron III fluids.
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quote:
Originally posted by The Critic:
Dexron-VI is the latest revision of Dexron. It is backwards compatible with all applications requiring Dexron. Prior to Dexron-VI's release, Dexron-III(H) was the latest revision of Dexron. All Dexron-III made within the last 18 months or so is of the H revision. Confirm with the product's manufacturer and request for the license # if you are uncertain.

Dexron-VI is a part synthetic product. Group II/III I believe. There's no point in switching to Dexron-VI with a powerflush. Just use it when you're due for a transmission service. If you decide to go the powerflush route, just make sure the dealership does not use any transmission cleaners or conditioners. They are very popular but are not always in the best interest of your transmission.

The smaller blenders simply cannot afford to pay the licensing costs. It's a $$$ issue.

Also, transmissions assembled at the factory are built under much cleaner conditions than in the aftermarket shops. Thus, there should be very little contamination in the unit caused by assembly.
Click to expand...
The smaller blenders simply cannot afford to pay the licensing costs. It's a $$$ issue.

"Also, transmissions assembled at the factory are built under much cleaner conditions than in the aftermarket shops". Thus, there should be very little contamination in the unit caused by assembly".
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Does this still hold true at 25,000 miles?
The Corvette tech told me that at 25,000 miles in my auto trans the fluid should still be clear
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Very strange to me as I would think there would be some discoloring.
Anyway Are you saying then it is better to leave the auto trans alone maybe till 25,000 as advised (because of contamination) until you do a total transmission service & powerflush with filter removal rather than do this at 1,000 miles which is too late for me anyway at 11,300+ miles currently?
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quote:
Originally posted by unDummy:
Licensing is nothing but OEM arm twisting. Small companies shouldn't have to pay the bribes. The aftermarket boutique fluids are so far ahead of OEM licensing that its not even funny. I've been using and recommending these unlicensed fluids for 20+ years.
We've all watched the silly OEM spec changes. Most brands, including the OEM stuff, need complete formula changes with every upgrade.

Just take a look at the Dexron spec. It started as a group 1 garbage oil. And, slowly moved up to higher percentages of group 1+, 2, 2+,.... and dexron-6 FINALLY supposedly has a reasonable percentage of Group III basestocks. Amsoil/Redline had better performance 20 years ago from their Group IV/V formulas.

Talk to any rep you want. GM needs to worry about leaky intakes, poor sales, low quality, bankruptcy, and should quit fooling with fluid specs. GM thinking: too cheap to add adequate oil cooling, mandate a synthetic motor oil
lol.gif


DexronVI is great. But, what is the true reason for this spec. Research it. Hint: inadequate ATF sump size and cooling
grin.gif


It'll take 5+ years before we see the affects of Dex VI. Aamco and Cottman employees will be happy
fruit.gif


Like I said before, UOA that ATF and rearend oil. Pay extra for a particle counts and TBN/TAN.
Then take those reports to that GM rep and ask him to explain the numbers. You might need to pull his head out of his arse to help him explain!
Click to expand...
Sounds to me like it is a GM vs. other aftermarket suppliers ISSUE that probably EXCEED the OEM GM specs. So of course the GM Lic.rep advice is biased and actually isn't an issue with my concerns.
I just want the better product fluid.
Where I just want to find out which fluid from whatever company will protect auto trans and rear diff. components which are the best for longetivity and best protection of these 2 above components.
Which just might be Amsoil or Redline instead of whatever GM uses?
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stingray427,
Using a synthetic ATF won't cause any issues as most, if not all, of the ATFs are compatible with synthetic and petroleum ATF. Dexron VI would probably be used if there was a TSB issued because it is backwards compatible, but since your transmission was already set up for DexronIII-H, then using the Amsoil, Mobil 1, or Redline ATF would be just fine, and in my personal opinion would most likely be superior.

If money is sparse I'd suggest having the filter replaced and re-filled with the Dexron VI or III-H, and then at the next scheduled service, have it fully flushed with your choice of synthetic ATF along with another filter replacement. However, if money is not an issue, then go ahead and do the full flush and filter replacement with your choice of synthetic ATF.
 
quote:
Originally posted by ConfederateTyrant:
stingray427,
Using a synthetic ATF won't cause any issues as most, if not all, of the ATFs are compatible with synthetic and petroleum ATF. Dexron VI would probably be used if there was a TSB issued because it is backwards compatible, but since your transmission was already set up for DexronIII-H, then using the Amsoil, Mobil 1, or Redline ATF would be just fine, and in my personal opinion would most likely be superior.

If money is sparse I'd suggest having the filter replaced and re-filled with the Dexron VI or III-H, and then at the next scheduled service, have it fully flushed with your choice of synthetic ATF along with another filter replacement. However, if money is not an issue, then go ahead and do the full flush and filter replacement with your choice of synthetic ATF.
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I would rather just do it in one change with only one visit to dealership. They said they can get all fluids out with machine, change filter and put whatever I want in but it maybe up to 14 quarts of fluid I will need to put in. The capacity on my auto trans is about 12 so if it is Dexron 6 it will be that x 12 quarts at least or if it is Redline or Amsoil 12X $8.00 to $10.00 a quart = $$$$$
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