Mark D. Ferner
Global Manager; Engine & Vehicle Technology
Shell Global Solutions (Deutschland) GmbH
Was kind enough to answer some questions for me on this thread:
Since he moved onto engine component testing, I asked him a question about Turbo's since my 2013 Nissan Juke was turbocharged. Just figured this would be a good read for folks here. He seems like a decent dude.
My email:
Mark! Chris Tamburino emailed me back with responses to them questions. I just wanted to say thank you! I do have a quick question for you.
I currently run Pennzoil Ultra 5w30 and when my stash runs out I'll be getting the new Pennzoil Ultra Platinum 5w30 in my 2013 Nissan Juke. My Juke is the first new car I've ever owned and the first turbo charged car. I've been reading alot on the forums at bobistheoilguy.com and the likes on how to properly care for my turbo. I came across a video on youtube made by the nice folks at jmturbocoopers who are one of the US's biggest mini-cooper turbo repair shops and Aaric Johnson says we should looks for motor oils specced for ACEA A3/B3 to help our turbo's survive in his youtube video called 'How to kill a turbo quick part 4'.
At the 7 minute mark, Aaric talks about Pennzoil Ultra and the specs it meets but it fails to meet ACEA A3/B3.
So my question is, how come Pennzoil Ultra and the new Pennzoil Ultra Platinum line doesn't have that A3/B3 spec and should I be concerned about my turbo? I do see they are spec'd for HTO-06, do you think that is more than enough?
I will leave you alone now, thanks again for helping find answers for me!
Skip
Mark's email:
Hello
I went back to the team and they provided this response. I hope this clears things up.
As a bit of background
ACEA specifications are set by ACEA the European Oils Standards association. This body performs a similar function to the API in North America. ACEA, being a European body, set specifications that cater for a very different market, in Europe approximately half of the light passenger vehicles are diesel fuelled, whereas in the US there is a vast predominance of gasoline powered vehicles. It is helpful to know that the ACEA specifications are A/B or C category. A/B combines gasoline performance (A) and diesel performance (B) in a single oil A/B. The C category is reserved for very modern diesel engines (post EuroIII) which require low ash engine oils in order to be compatible with the latest diesel after treatment devices. ACEA decided to have a single A/B oil in order to avoid miss-lubricating issues in workshops. Generally most oils meet A3/B3 and A3/B4 which are different versions of the A/B category but very similar. The ACEA spec is re-issued every 2 years, currently the latest version is A3/B4-14. Why the pre-amble – in order to formulate a combined gasoline/diesel engine oil (A/B) there is one big compromise – Fuel Economy. Diesel engines require high levels of soot handling additives and these additives detriment fuel economy, hence in a gasoline engine using an A3/B3 or A3/B4 oil will generally give a lower level of fuel economy than would be accessible by using the equivalent SAE grade of API gasoline oil, currently SN. What has ACEA done to address this issue, they have introduced the A1/B1 and A5/B5 oils. These oils offer better fuel economy than the equivalent A3/B3 and A3/B4 oils by specifying a lower viscosity oil but they are still required to be capable to lubricate both a diesel and gasoline engine, so their ultimate fuel economy will be lower than an equivalent API SN only product. For this reason you find that many OEMs base their gasoline factory fill specification more on the API specification and you find that API are common requirements in many markets outside of North America.
It should be noted , in reference to comments made in the video, that neither ACEA or API mandate the use of synthetics in any of their specifications and you can generally achieve both ACEA and API specs with a conventional mineral oil based product as well as a synthetic product.
ACEA is also a self-certifying system, so when the video states that “meets and exceeds is no good because the oil marketers have not approved the product” ACEA does not approve or endorse any product, each oil marketer that self-certifies their product meets the relevant ACEA specification. There is no official ACEA stamp or mark as there is with the API “donut”.
Turbo chargers
Developing an oil for turbocharger lubricant imposes a couple of formulation challenges (1) the extreme heat the oil can encounter in the turbocharger bearings and (2) low oil flow through the turbocharger bearings. For these reasons it is recommended to select a full synthetic product with excellent oxidation resistant and highly stable viscosity modifier. These “heat” challenges as talked about in the video.
If you have a diesel engine Nissan Juke – unlikely in North America – then you would want an ACEA style oil meeting the above criteria – Helix Ultra A3/B4 or Pennzoil Euro equivalent - would be a very suitable choice. If you have a gasoline engine Nissan Juke – most likely in North America – then the best choice would be a full synthetic API SN oil – Pennzoil Ultra Platinum with PurePlus Technology.
As you might expect from Shell we test and develop both our Helix and Pennzoil brands in the available TurboCharger tests, for example , but not exhaustive, as you mention below the Honda HTO-06 test, the ACEA EP6-CDT test, the Porsche endurance test. We also conduct extensive fleet tests and have much experience in formulating OEM specific first fill engine oil products to lubricate turbochargers.
To reiterate being ACEA A3/B3 is not a guarantee of turbo charger performance – you can meet the ACEA A3/B3 specification with a conventional mineral oil based product, what is key is to select a full synthetic motor oil that meets with ACEA A3/B3 or A3/B4 or API SN dependent on your powertrain.
The video also makes the point that dependent on your duty you will want to change the oil regularly. I would certainly support this point and each owner should assess their severity of duty and make an informed choice about oil drain.
You can download the relevant ACEA and API specifications from their websites.
Global Manager; Engine & Vehicle Technology
Shell Global Solutions (Deutschland) GmbH
Was kind enough to answer some questions for me on this thread:
Since he moved onto engine component testing, I asked him a question about Turbo's since my 2013 Nissan Juke was turbocharged. Just figured this would be a good read for folks here. He seems like a decent dude.
My email:
Mark! Chris Tamburino emailed me back with responses to them questions. I just wanted to say thank you! I do have a quick question for you.
I currently run Pennzoil Ultra 5w30 and when my stash runs out I'll be getting the new Pennzoil Ultra Platinum 5w30 in my 2013 Nissan Juke. My Juke is the first new car I've ever owned and the first turbo charged car. I've been reading alot on the forums at bobistheoilguy.com and the likes on how to properly care for my turbo. I came across a video on youtube made by the nice folks at jmturbocoopers who are one of the US's biggest mini-cooper turbo repair shops and Aaric Johnson says we should looks for motor oils specced for ACEA A3/B3 to help our turbo's survive in his youtube video called 'How to kill a turbo quick part 4'.
At the 7 minute mark, Aaric talks about Pennzoil Ultra and the specs it meets but it fails to meet ACEA A3/B3.
So my question is, how come Pennzoil Ultra and the new Pennzoil Ultra Platinum line doesn't have that A3/B3 spec and should I be concerned about my turbo? I do see they are spec'd for HTO-06, do you think that is more than enough?
I will leave you alone now, thanks again for helping find answers for me!
Skip
Mark's email:
Hello
I went back to the team and they provided this response. I hope this clears things up.
As a bit of background
ACEA specifications are set by ACEA the European Oils Standards association. This body performs a similar function to the API in North America. ACEA, being a European body, set specifications that cater for a very different market, in Europe approximately half of the light passenger vehicles are diesel fuelled, whereas in the US there is a vast predominance of gasoline powered vehicles. It is helpful to know that the ACEA specifications are A/B or C category. A/B combines gasoline performance (A) and diesel performance (B) in a single oil A/B. The C category is reserved for very modern diesel engines (post EuroIII) which require low ash engine oils in order to be compatible with the latest diesel after treatment devices. ACEA decided to have a single A/B oil in order to avoid miss-lubricating issues in workshops. Generally most oils meet A3/B3 and A3/B4 which are different versions of the A/B category but very similar. The ACEA spec is re-issued every 2 years, currently the latest version is A3/B4-14. Why the pre-amble – in order to formulate a combined gasoline/diesel engine oil (A/B) there is one big compromise – Fuel Economy. Diesel engines require high levels of soot handling additives and these additives detriment fuel economy, hence in a gasoline engine using an A3/B3 or A3/B4 oil will generally give a lower level of fuel economy than would be accessible by using the equivalent SAE grade of API gasoline oil, currently SN. What has ACEA done to address this issue, they have introduced the A1/B1 and A5/B5 oils. These oils offer better fuel economy than the equivalent A3/B3 and A3/B4 oils by specifying a lower viscosity oil but they are still required to be capable to lubricate both a diesel and gasoline engine, so their ultimate fuel economy will be lower than an equivalent API SN only product. For this reason you find that many OEMs base their gasoline factory fill specification more on the API specification and you find that API are common requirements in many markets outside of North America.
It should be noted , in reference to comments made in the video, that neither ACEA or API mandate the use of synthetics in any of their specifications and you can generally achieve both ACEA and API specs with a conventional mineral oil based product as well as a synthetic product.
ACEA is also a self-certifying system, so when the video states that “meets and exceeds is no good because the oil marketers have not approved the product” ACEA does not approve or endorse any product, each oil marketer that self-certifies their product meets the relevant ACEA specification. There is no official ACEA stamp or mark as there is with the API “donut”.
Turbo chargers
Developing an oil for turbocharger lubricant imposes a couple of formulation challenges (1) the extreme heat the oil can encounter in the turbocharger bearings and (2) low oil flow through the turbocharger bearings. For these reasons it is recommended to select a full synthetic product with excellent oxidation resistant and highly stable viscosity modifier. These “heat” challenges as talked about in the video.
If you have a diesel engine Nissan Juke – unlikely in North America – then you would want an ACEA style oil meeting the above criteria – Helix Ultra A3/B4 or Pennzoil Euro equivalent - would be a very suitable choice. If you have a gasoline engine Nissan Juke – most likely in North America – then the best choice would be a full synthetic API SN oil – Pennzoil Ultra Platinum with PurePlus Technology.
As you might expect from Shell we test and develop both our Helix and Pennzoil brands in the available TurboCharger tests, for example , but not exhaustive, as you mention below the Honda HTO-06 test, the ACEA EP6-CDT test, the Porsche endurance test. We also conduct extensive fleet tests and have much experience in formulating OEM specific first fill engine oil products to lubricate turbochargers.
To reiterate being ACEA A3/B3 is not a guarantee of turbo charger performance – you can meet the ACEA A3/B3 specification with a conventional mineral oil based product, what is key is to select a full synthetic motor oil that meets with ACEA A3/B3 or A3/B4 or API SN dependent on your powertrain.
The video also makes the point that dependent on your duty you will want to change the oil regularly. I would certainly support this point and each owner should assess their severity of duty and make an informed choice about oil drain.
You can download the relevant ACEA and API specifications from their websites.
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