expect million dollar lawsuits to be filed against Penn State and JoePa. I'm stunned NO ONE who saw or heard of these criminal acts called the cops! apparently, penn state janitors knew of these activities but were afraid of losing their jobs if they reported what they saw. really?
Penn State scandal
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This is very sad indeed. It will take Penn State University 20+ years to break free of this scandal.
Hello, Rah Rah Rah, Sis Boom Bah. Have your victims come forward, gather evidence and formalize your charges. There's a body of law which pertains to this, use it. Track this case, and others, and take note of the details, like, how many come forward truthfully, how many come forward who are lying, who was told of the "crime", who elected to keep quiet, who was a structural victim (like a janitor fearing for his job etc.). Please don't just keep saying it's disgusting or some old guy should loose his job coaching. Papa Joe's contract is up at the end of this year anyway. We've got that part. Yay team. Kira
Originally Posted By: Kira
Hello, Rah Rah Rah, Sis Boom Bah. Have your victims come forward, gather evidence and formalize your charges. There's a body of law which pertains to this, use it. Track this case, and others, and take note of the details, like, how many come forward truthfully, how many come forward who are lying, who was told of the "crime", who elected to keep quiet, who was a structural victim (like a janitor fearing for his job etc.). Please don't just keep saying it's disgusting or some old guy should loose his job coaching. Papa Joe's contract is up at the end of this year anyway. We've got that part. Yay team. Kira
Actually if you witness juvenile -------- PA by law you must report it.
So you don't think this type of crime is disgusting? Hmm.
Hello, Rah Rah Rah, Sis Boom Bah. Have your victims come forward, gather evidence and formalize your charges. There's a body of law which pertains to this, use it. Track this case, and others, and take note of the details, like, how many come forward truthfully, how many come forward who are lying, who was told of the "crime", who elected to keep quiet, who was a structural victim (like a janitor fearing for his job etc.). Please don't just keep saying it's disgusting or some old guy should loose his job coaching. Papa Joe's contract is up at the end of this year anyway. We've got that part. Yay team. Kira
Actually if you witness juvenile -------- PA by law you must report it.
So you don't think this type of crime is disgusting? Hmm.
Joe Paterno knew about his 58 year old coach molesting a young boy in the school facilities. Notified one person. Let it go after that and the molestation continued with numerous other boys. Never notified law enforcement authorities.
Jim Tressel got fired because his players, legal adults, traded some memorabilia for tattoos. It did not make them faster, stronger, throw or catch better. More importantly, it did not permanently scar young boy(s) for life.
Big difference.
Jim Tressel got fired because his players, legal adults, traded some memorabilia for tattoos. It did not make them faster, stronger, throw or catch better. More importantly, it did not permanently scar young boy(s) for life.
Big difference.
Originally Posted By: GMFan
How could someone sleep at night knowing they witnessed something so wrong and hardly did anything about it..or were told to keep quiet? Who would even want to work for an organization that wouldn't take something like that seriously? Sick.
From what I've seen of Joe Paterno recently, I wonder how he stays awake.
How could someone sleep at night knowing they witnessed something so wrong and hardly did anything about it..or were told to keep quiet? Who would even want to work for an organization that wouldn't take something like that seriously? Sick.
From what I've seen of Joe Paterno recently, I wonder how he stays awake.
JHZR2
Staff member
Quote:
assaulting a 10-year-old in the showers at Penn State's athletics complex. Paterno reported this to his bosses, but it's unclear whether he did anything else — such as try to find out what his longtime assistant was doing or find the boy.
From USA Today.
I dont know how I feel about that. To one extent, he should have taken up the banner and charged full speed ahead to protect the person(s) and stop the action.
To the other extent, where does one stop playing citizen police officer, report it to the higher authority and then get out of the way to let them do their job?
Some articles ive seen seem to imply that there is a higher moral obligation to protect a child in a situation like this than, say, if you saw your neighbor's home being broken into or an adult getting beaten on. I think that may be a bit too far because it seems to me that it is more black and white. Either there is an obligation for any crime or none. But I havent thought that comment through enough just yet.
Could it have been that the result of finding that coach in a malicious act was to tell him to reitre or else? Is that right or wrong? Were other steps taken to confidentially seal the situation up? What says it HAS to go to the media? And at the same time, while Im sure that the kid was screwed up from this, what says that there HAS to be a giant financial settlement to the situation. Is buying stuff really going to improve what just happened?
So IMO there isnt enough info to make a full judgement, and society is just wishy-washy enough to not have a basis on "moral obligation" anymore.
assaulting a 10-year-old in the showers at Penn State's athletics complex. Paterno reported this to his bosses, but it's unclear whether he did anything else — such as try to find out what his longtime assistant was doing or find the boy.
From USA Today.
I dont know how I feel about that. To one extent, he should have taken up the banner and charged full speed ahead to protect the person(s) and stop the action.
To the other extent, where does one stop playing citizen police officer, report it to the higher authority and then get out of the way to let them do their job?
Some articles ive seen seem to imply that there is a higher moral obligation to protect a child in a situation like this than, say, if you saw your neighbor's home being broken into or an adult getting beaten on. I think that may be a bit too far because it seems to me that it is more black and white. Either there is an obligation for any crime or none. But I havent thought that comment through enough just yet.
Could it have been that the result of finding that coach in a malicious act was to tell him to reitre or else? Is that right or wrong? Were other steps taken to confidentially seal the situation up? What says it HAS to go to the media? And at the same time, while Im sure that the kid was screwed up from this, what says that there HAS to be a giant financial settlement to the situation. Is buying stuff really going to improve what just happened?
So IMO there isnt enough info to make a full judgement, and society is just wishy-washy enough to not have a basis on "moral obligation" anymore.
The bottom line is, these guys are considered innocent until, and if, they are found otherwise in a court of law.
If it turns out that they are guilty, they must be punished and their names must be associated with everlasting disgrace.
If these allegations are true, it is very disturbing that such was tolerated. But one can only draw conclusions on appropriate evidence, not guesswork or rumor. Remember that these alleged acts took place a rather long time ago.
If it turns out that they are guilty, they must be punished and their names must be associated with everlasting disgrace.
If these allegations are true, it is very disturbing that such was tolerated. But one can only draw conclusions on appropriate evidence, not guesswork or rumor. Remember that these alleged acts took place a rather long time ago.
Originally Posted By: Cristobal
Remember that these alleged acts took place a rather long time ago.
Correction: SOME of these allegations took place along time ago, but some were as recent as 2009. The most disturbing part of this is that they continued over a long period of time, during which the administration had allegations that they had a sick predator out there, but did not take appropriate steps to stop it.
Remember that these alleged acts took place a rather long time ago.
Correction: SOME of these allegations took place along time ago, but some were as recent as 2009. The most disturbing part of this is that they continued over a long period of time, during which the administration had allegations that they had a sick predator out there, but did not take appropriate steps to stop it.
JHZR2
Staff member
Originally Posted By: Cristobal
The bottom line is, these guys are considered innocent until, and if, they are found otherwise in a court of law.
If it turns out that they are guilty, they must be punished and their names must be associated with everlasting disgrace.
If these allegations are true, it is very disturbing that such was tolerated. But one can only draw conclusions on appropriate evidence, not guesswork or rumor. Remember that these alleged acts took place a rather long time ago.
Agree. It seems to me that given there were witnesses, the book should and will be thrown at the guy who did it.
I guess Im thinking more about Joe P, what he would be guilty of. It seems like he is as much at the center of the issue as anyone. If he did indeed flag it up his CoC, what is his issue or guilt from there?
It almost seems like, per my earlier post, that people want to create a higher moral obligation to go and "DO" something about it then and there. But Im not sure if such a moral obligation (or legal) exists in our society.
The bottom line is, these guys are considered innocent until, and if, they are found otherwise in a court of law.
If it turns out that they are guilty, they must be punished and their names must be associated with everlasting disgrace.
If these allegations are true, it is very disturbing that such was tolerated. But one can only draw conclusions on appropriate evidence, not guesswork or rumor. Remember that these alleged acts took place a rather long time ago.
Agree. It seems to me that given there were witnesses, the book should and will be thrown at the guy who did it.
I guess Im thinking more about Joe P, what he would be guilty of. It seems like he is as much at the center of the issue as anyone. If he did indeed flag it up his CoC, what is his issue or guilt from there?
It almost seems like, per my earlier post, that people want to create a higher moral obligation to go and "DO" something about it then and there. But Im not sure if such a moral obligation (or legal) exists in our society.
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
If he did indeed flag it up his CoC, what is his issue or guilt from there?
JoePa has spent his life telling others to do the right thing. Up til this case he practiced this as far as we know. He is the face of PSU, he has helped bring the University to greatness, he led by example. BC of him we are Big10.
This thing is so horrific that it overwhelmed key players at PSU to "not" do the right thing (including joe). They thought of themselves and the University first and the victims last. They screwed up bigtime.
JoPa from my perspective knew enough that he "as the face of PSU" needed to act decisively. He did not. And for that he must go. Again from my perspective Spanier needs to go too.
Who can say what any of us would have done.
If he did indeed flag it up his CoC, what is his issue or guilt from there?
JoePa has spent his life telling others to do the right thing. Up til this case he practiced this as far as we know. He is the face of PSU, he has helped bring the University to greatness, he led by example. BC of him we are Big10.
This thing is so horrific that it overwhelmed key players at PSU to "not" do the right thing (including joe). They thought of themselves and the University first and the victims last. They screwed up bigtime.
JoPa from my perspective knew enough that he "as the face of PSU" needed to act decisively. He did not. And for that he must go. Again from my perspective Spanier needs to go too.
Who can say what any of us would have done.
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Al, when in doubt, the right thing to do is probably the hardest thing to do. JoPa couldn't bring himself to do this.
Originally Posted By: GROUCHO MARX
Al, when in doubt, the right thing to do is probably the hardest thing to do. JoPa couldn't bring himself to do this.
True. PSU is like any number of major universities where the "Sports Tail Wags the Academic Dog" As long as this continues we are gonna have these results.
I have said for many rears that the PSU coaching staff is to "Inbred". Joe has never fired a coach no matter how badly he underperformed. In a sense this is part of that culture: Protect the program, the coaching staff and the University. I liken it to the culture of big State and Federal Government. No matter how bad you screw up..nothing will happen to you.
In this case Paterno seeked not to rock the boat and let life go by as is intended in Happy Valley. Without even knowing every fact, its abundantly clear that a chain saw needs to be liberally applied. Its clear that Spanier needs to turn that chainsaw on himself and vice versa (Joe).
Right now..Joe should admit that he let his University down, resign and call on Spanier to do the same..for the sake of the University. Just as a Forest Fire gives new renewal to the land, that's what needs to happen at PSU.
Al, when in doubt, the right thing to do is probably the hardest thing to do. JoPa couldn't bring himself to do this.
True. PSU is like any number of major universities where the "Sports Tail Wags the Academic Dog" As long as this continues we are gonna have these results.
I have said for many rears that the PSU coaching staff is to "Inbred". Joe has never fired a coach no matter how badly he underperformed. In a sense this is part of that culture: Protect the program, the coaching staff and the University. I liken it to the culture of big State and Federal Government. No matter how bad you screw up..nothing will happen to you.
In this case Paterno seeked not to rock the boat and let life go by as is intended in Happy Valley. Without even knowing every fact, its abundantly clear that a chain saw needs to be liberally applied. Its clear that Spanier needs to turn that chainsaw on himself and vice versa (Joe).
Right now..Joe should admit that he let his University down, resign and call on Spanier to do the same..for the sake of the University. Just as a Forest Fire gives new renewal to the land, that's what needs to happen at PSU.
Well said Al. The culture of major university athletic programs is the the "blue wall" of law enforcement.
How come nobody have yet said "she is lying" ? I am always surprised at the perceived presumption of guilt or innocence when these kind of allegations are brought up. If a woman brings it up, the first line of defense is always denial from the accused and all of his supporters. I do not see this happening when the abuse is alleged against boys or male.
- Vikas
- Vikas
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JHZR2
Staff member
Originally Posted By: Vikas
How come nobody have yet said "she is lying" ? I am always surprised at the perceived presumption of guilt or innocence when these kind of allegations are brought up. If a woman brings it up, the first line of defense is always denial from the accused and all of his supporters. I do not see this happening when the abuse is alleged against boys or male.
- Vikas
it doesnt seem that this is part of the story. What child is making accusations? Perhaps I missed that. All the discussion is that adults knew/saw/witnessed things going on. If this is the case, then I dont see how any denial is in the cards. It is peer witnesses.
How come nobody have yet said "she is lying" ? I am always surprised at the perceived presumption of guilt or innocence when these kind of allegations are brought up. If a woman brings it up, the first line of defense is always denial from the accused and all of his supporters. I do not see this happening when the abuse is alleged against boys or male.
- Vikas
it doesnt seem that this is part of the story. What child is making accusations? Perhaps I missed that. All the discussion is that adults knew/saw/witnessed things going on. If this is the case, then I dont see how any denial is in the cards. It is peer witnesses.
Originally Posted By: Vikas
How come nobody have yet said "she is lying" ? I am always surprised at the perceived presumption of guilt or innocence when these kind of allegations are brought up.
Of course he could be innocent. And I am the last to call someone guilty without them being convicted.
But right now the name of the University is at stake. Justice will deal with Sandusky. Spanier and Joe tried to shove the dirt under the rug. They sought to avoid the "fury" of the Legal system. Guilty or innocent they didn't act. Its not about Sandusky..its about Spanier, Joe, and this "Culture" they are displaying and have displayed.
How come nobody have yet said "she is lying" ? I am always surprised at the perceived presumption of guilt or innocence when these kind of allegations are brought up.
Of course he could be innocent. And I am the last to call someone guilty without them being convicted.
But right now the name of the University is at stake. Justice will deal with Sandusky. Spanier and Joe tried to shove the dirt under the rug. They sought to avoid the "fury" of the Legal system. Guilty or innocent they didn't act. Its not about Sandusky..its about Spanier, Joe, and this "Culture" they are displaying and have displayed.
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I think the people that turned away are almost as disgusting as the act itself.
Intervention is the key to everything. You can not stop things like this from STARTING but WE ALL have the power to END IT.
Someone should have stood up and barked fire long ago.
Just my opinion, I could be wrong.
Intervention is the key to everything. You can not stop things like this from STARTING but WE ALL have the power to END IT.
Someone should have stood up and barked fire long ago.
Just my opinion, I could be wrong.
I don't speak for anyone but myself here.
Had I witnessed that scene there would have been no delay. I would have beat the snot out of that old man and called the cops immediately.
Easy choice.
Had I witnessed that scene there would have been no delay. I would have beat the snot out of that old man and called the cops immediately.
Easy choice.
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