Penn Platinum vs Ultra... Did I Imagine This?

[XanRules]

Hi folks,

SUPER quick question. I vaguely remember reading here on this forum a few years ago on here that Penn Platinum was a better choice in turbocharged, direct-injected engines than Ultra Platinum. In my specific case, it's a 2017 Ford Fiesta ST. Based on that, I've been running regular Penn Platinum 5w30 in the car since I bought it and it's been running without issue for 80,000 miles, no plans to change as both oils exceed Ford's factory specifications, I am just incredibly curious about where I would have read that and why.

Could anyone more knowledgeable than me help me out? Did I completely imagine this?

Thanks in advance!

 

[buster]

PUP>PP.

 

[KCJeep]

You might have read it on here, I’ve seen some crazy posts and made a few myself. But it’s not true, Ultra is the better product.

Not that there’s anything wrong with Platinum.

 

[twX]

PUP seems to be very similar to PP, but with higher concentrations of moly, ZDDP, and detergents, and a higher TBN. PUP is better than PP for OCIs that are long enough for those extra additives to matter.

However, higher additive concentrations might be associated with more intake valve deposits, so for GDI engines, an oil with less additive might be better if you aren't doing long OCIs.

 

[SubieRubyRoo]

PUP seems to be very similar to PP, but with higher concentrations of moly, ZDDP, and detergents, and a higher TBN. PUP is better than PP for OCIs that are long enough for those extra additives to matter.

However, higher additive concentrations might be associated with more intake valve deposits, so for GDI engines, an oil with less additive might be better if you aren't doing long OCIs.

Have you done or seen testing that proves higher additive levels result in higher intake valve deposits?

Or is it more likely that a more volatile oil results in higher IVD, regardless of add pack levels?

Don’t create hysteria where all you’ve got is emotions for evidence.

 

[Glenda W.]

I’m sure at some point here someone claimed PUP wasn’t good for LSPI because it lacks Dexos.

 

[SubieRubyRoo]

I’m sure at some point here someone claimed PUP wasn’t good for LSPI because it lacks Dexos.

That’s like believing the length of winter is dictated by viewing an arbitrary rodent in an attention-starved backwater town.

 

[doitmyself]

That’s like believing the length of winter is dictated by viewing an arbitrary rodent in an attention-starved backwater town.

You know that Phil reads the Farmers Almanac, right? Geez!

 

[SubieRubyRoo]

You know that Phil reads the Farmers Almanac, right? Geez!
View attachment 298576

I’ll feed Phil a diet of Havok XT til the job is done.

 

[Gladiator007]

PUP seems to be very similar to PP, but with higher concentrations of moly, ZDDP, and detergents, and a higher TBN. PUP is better than PP for OCIs that are long enough for those extra additives to matter.

However, higher additive concentrations might be associated with more intake valve deposits, so for GDI engines, an oil with less additive might be better if you aren't doing long OCIs.

Their Euro is even better, assuming they haven't changed it in 4 years

 

[ATex7239]

Maybe somebody reviewed a VOA or UOA and deduced it was better purely on moly or some other additive’s ppm content. Then was like “ah ha - this must be a superior product” and told the world about this travesty. Then you read the comments, it stuck in your mind, and you just rolled with it. One possible explanation among many.

Remember when everyone was flocking to Toyota dealerships to get TGMO cause of its high moly content. Then more experienced folks chimed in explaining that there are better and lesser kinds of moly and more isn’t necessarily better when it relates to the type and the fully formulated product.

There might be some dude out there somewhere still paying $8 a qt for TGMO on his 20 yr old F150 thinking that oil is the absolute GOAT.

 

[Patman]

Remember when everyone was flocking to Toyota dealerships to get TGMO cause of its high moly content. Then more experienced folks chimed in explaining that there are better and lesser kinds of moly and more isn’t necessarily better when it relates to the type and the fully formulated product.

There might be some dude out there somewhere still paying $8 a qt for TGMO on his 20 yr old F150 thinking that oil is the absolute GOAT.

I was one of the ones that was buying TGMO 0w-20 for my last Civic for a while but I was also getting it for $5 a liter so it was cheaper than the big name synthetics here at the time

 

[buster]

Notice it says "Superior Full Synthetic" for PUP.

 

[Zap1967]

I’ve been running platinum 5-20 in my Ram 5.7 since I dumped the factory fill at 2500 miles (95k now). I don’t do an analysis at every interval but all the analysis I have done after break in match the 5.7 universal averages for an OCI of 5k (I’m running 7.5k OCI).

5-20/5-30 arguments aside, I suck with the 5-20 while under warranty incase there was an issue with the engine. It seems happy as a clam so I’ll likely continue as is.

 

[dubber09]

PP was and may still be a better value oil, it also had/has more current certifications than PUP, doesn't mean it's a better oil.

 

[buster]

Question I have is can these "dry" ester less synthetics maintain engine cleanliness and piston cleanliness as good as the ester containing synthetics. I'm skeptical, however, oils like VRP are ester-less and clean like no other.

 

[gunnellett]

Question I have is can these "dry" ester less synthetics maintain engine cleanliness and piston cleanliness as good as the ester containing synthetics. I'm skeptical, however, oils like VRP are ester-less and clean like no other.

I've seen the term "dry oil" a few times in different discussions. I am new to BITOG. What is "dry" referring to? Thanks.

 

[buster]

I've seen the term "dry oil" a few times in different discussions. I am new to BITOG. What is "dry" referring to? Thanks.

Oils that don't use an ester cobase oil (polar base oils - ANs, esters (adipate/POE). Mobil 1 Tri-Synthetic was PAO/POE/AN, much like HPL today. Over time some oils (mostly off the shelf) reduced esters in their oils to just ester additives like boron/ZDP. That's why you see virgin oxidation values <12 for most of those oils. It seems the approach with the ester-less oils is to rely heavily on oxidation resistance, and dispersent/detergents for engine cleanliness. The ultra-premium oils all seem to have one thing in common - high polar base oils. Red Line, Amsoil SS (not OE or XL), HPL, torco.....Mobil uses AN in some grades for solvency and their top tier ESP oils use POE. However, Valvoline came up with something unique in VRP that doesn't rely on polar molecules.

 

[gunnellett]

Oils that don't use an ester cobase oil (polar base oils - ANs, esters (adipate/POE). Mobil 1 Tri-Synthetic was PAO/POE/AN, much like HPL today. Over time some oils (mostly off the shelf) reduced esters in their oils to just ester additives like boron/ZDP. That's why you see virgin oxidation values <12 for most of those oils. It seems the approach with the ester-less oils is to rely heavily on oxidation resistance, and dispersent/detergents for engine cleanliness. The ultra-premium oils all seem to have one thing in common - high polar base oils. Red Line, Amsoil SS (not OE or XL), HPL, torco.....Mobil uses AN in some grades for solvency and their top tier ESP oils use POE. However, Valvoline came up with something unique in VRP that doesn't rely on polar molecules.

Thank you buster for this excellent and thorough response!

 

[buster]

You're welcome.