PC-11?

[OneEyeJack]

Do you think that the upcoming PC-11 spec's will dramatically increase the cost of diesel engine oil?

And, do you think that PC-11 will migrate down to lighter duty diesel engines?

Will running these engines slower and hotter result in shorter times between overhaul? Or will this new oil be so good that engine life will not suffer to any great degree?

 

[Solarent]

I think we might see a slight uptick in prices - but more for the FA-4 grades than the CK-4. Being as there are already 5W40 and 5W30 HDDEO's that find their way into passenger car diesels (or light duty trucks like the new Ram 1500) I would expect to see that continue.

I also think we will see more european style "low SAPS" claims in North America due to the phos waiver going away for universal oils in GF-6. I would bet that marketers are already preparing for that, even though its still a couple of years out.

 

[Garak]

What grades, specifically, will be affected by this elimination of the waiver? I would assume that it would apply only to grades that could conceivably be covered by ILSAC in the first place, such as 16, 20, and 30 grades. I do note that Mobil Delvac 1 LE 5w30 already has phosphorus levels within ILSAC limitations already; HTHS is another matter.

ON a side note, could we start seeing Euro oils forego API certification altogether, if formulators find API limitations problematic? After all, does something like Castrol 0w30 A3/B4 or 5w30 A3/B4 really need API certification? Is there any risk to the API regime even in the HDEO world that diesel engine manufacturers will simply use builders approvals and ignore the API licensing scheme altogether?

 

[OneEyeJack]

Garak, you make a good point. Maybe the idea of skipping the API and going with a direct manufacturer's approval might help lock customers in as well. Distribution channels are good enough to ensure availability for the major manufacturers. This trend is already showing itself right now. With emission spec's getting a bit tighter all the time it might be just the time for such a move.

 

[Garak]

Yep, I wonder. Look at any top end HDEO, and you'll see a laundry list of builder approvals. If Rotella 15w40 has a formal builder's approval for my hypothetical Cummins, why would I worry about the API specification? MB certainly relies on their approval sheets.

 

[Shannow]

I'll have to go to the parts store tomorrow, but Australia there are a couple of oils I've seen that have no API S* or C* on them.

One of the Nissan branded oils at the dealer is labelled only B4.

 

[Doug Hillary]

Hi,
Garak - MB have relied on their lubricant approval process since the 1950s and most likely Pre WW2 as well. The process has served them and their Customers very well indeed

To be fair CAT and some other "Industrial OEMs" have had strict regimes in place for a long time too

Of course I've been a long time supported of ACEA, and I've seen the product of a less than responsive API in past times. This lack of responsiveness cost some major US OEMs and their Customers very very serious money

 

[Garak]

It is pretty amazing to look at the list of certifications and builder approvals for a product like Delvac 1 LE 5w30. There isn't much in the way of a modern diesel (non-passenger) that isn't covered.

 

[Doug Hillary]

Originally Posted By: Garak
It is pretty amazing to look at the list of certifications and builder approvals for a product like Delvac 1 LE 5w30. There isn't much in the way of a modern diesel (non-passenger) that isn't covered.


Hi,
Garak - correct - this proves that such lubricants exist now, and for sometime - and without any drama! I've been using this lubricant (Delvac 1 LE 5w30) in one light diesel for nearly 18 months. The Batch of lubricant I'm using was made 03/14 in France!

As you will be aware, ACEA's E sequences have some crossover to Mack T10, T8E and T12 and Cummins M11 and ISM test/approval protocols

Cummins and Mack were two US OEMs who suffered significantly by the API's failure to keep up with the emerging technologies of the time. ACEA will not let that happen - the Euro OEMs are the controlling parties in that Organisation - the opposite is the case with the API

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: Garak
It is pretty amazing to look at the list of certifications and builder approvals for a product like Delvac 1 LE 5w30. There isn't much in the way of a modern diesel (non-passenger) that isn't covered.


Garak,
couple of AFTON data sheets, that I'm posting for interest on the topic, not stating anything one way or another, but they ARE really interesting in which additives cover which specs and standards...I like some of the intriguing notes in them as well.

http://www.aftonchemical.com/ProductDataSheets/Engine Oil/HiTEC-8755B_PDS.pdf

Is an across the board HDMO additive, with a table of treat rates and approvals.

https://www.aftonchemical.com/ProductDataSheets/Engine Oil/HiTEC-8766B_PDS.pdf

for an E7 package, with some other specs available...has some snippets on basestock requirements as well.

 

[Garak]

That is interesting, and lists all kinds of interesting things, including A3 and the like.