P1 Autopsy- 10K Miles

[Bottom_Feeder]

Originally Posted By: rshaw125
Looks like the filter did it's job. Maybe a dirty engine?

Ditto.

Black oil and media isn't the filter's fault. And I also don't believe that wavy media is a sign of a problem.

 

[TomYoung]

Originally Posted By: AVB
I don't mean to sound rude, but what did you expect? You can either catch that stuff and fill up the filter, or let it circulate.


This is actually a superb comment. We should be celebrating this used-up, dirty filter -- and in this application also chasing down the reason it is so dirty.

 

[Jim Allen]

Originally Posted By: TomYoung
Originally Posted By: AVB
I don't mean to sound rude, but what did you expect? You can either catch that stuff and fill up the filter, or let it circulate.


This is actually a superb comment. We should be celebrating this used-up, dirty filter -- and in this application also chasing down the reason it is so dirty.


Best to read all the comments. The "dirty" issue has been dealt with. The oil wasn't all that dirty coming out, either. It was an amber color and you sould still see through.

 

[Donald]

On the first pic, what is that black goo on the metal edge that looks like driveway sealer?

 

[ARCOgraphite]

I can get 2-3 k out of the wix57356 or the delco before I get mechanical knocking and have to pull the filter. I couldnt imagine going over a year on a filter unless it was a high capacity large form factor synthetic media and "real" PAO/POE synthetic base oil. We have extremely poor gas quality up here that can lead to injector plugging high misfire count and the subsequent oil loading and varnishing.

 

[Donald]

Originally Posted By: AVB
The Pure1 is 99.9% efficient at 20 microns compaired with 99% at 25 microns for the Purolator Synthetic.

It is a compromise, to go longer you have to filter less. The Synthetic is also rated to hold about twice the contaminates by weight than the P1.


Actually I thought some of the top tie filters had 2 or 3 layers of media each designed to catch a different micron size. So you can filter to a smaller micron size and also hold more dirt. The outer layers hold the big crud and the inner layers hold the smaller crud.

 

[AVB]

That is probably true, I was just using the two Purolators to make the point that the more you filter out the quicker the filter will reach capacity.

 

[MinamiKotaro]

This filter looks fine to me. I've seen filters with a lot less miles look just as "bad".

I doubt it was completely clogged. A PL30001 is rated to hold ~9 grams of contaminant. A healthy engine won't shed anywhere near 9 grams of crud in 10,000 miles.

This filter looks much smaller than a PL30001 but I'll wager the capcity is still more than enough for a 10K run.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: Jim Allen
Here is the autopsy photos of the PL14459 (Honda app) P1 filter that was in service in my Honda for 9865 miles. I really, really regret having dropped the UOA sample container into the drain pan because this filter did not do well. As you can see by the pics, the media is very wavy "mooshed" (hows that for technical jargon ( : < ) and distorted.


Purolators usually have some pleat "waviness", regardless of how long they were in use or how "loaded up" there are. I just cut the same filter (PL14459) open off my Altima V6 with a 5,000 OCI. This engine has 45K and is spotless inside, and the filter pleats on mine looked the same as yours.

Originally Posted By: Jim Allen

My observation/interpretation is that this filter was very loaded and this effect was caused by high DP. Other evidence of that is that this filter was left to drain for about 40 days. When I cut it open, it was still full of oil. That is a testament to the ADBV, but the fact that the oil didn't drool through the media via gravity over 40 days tells me it was pretty loaded up.


Not true ... even if the filter had 100 miles on it with new oil inside, the oil will not "drool" out the center tube holes if the ADBV is sealing 100%. I've done these ADBV tests at home on a few PureOnes, and they always hold oil inside, regardless of how long it sits off the car with base down.

 

[AuthorEditor]

Quote:
I've done these ADBV tests at home on a few PureOnes, and they always hold oil inside, regardless of how long it sits off the car with base down.


I agree 100% with that. I've run several P1s on my motorcycle with not even 3K on them (changed just before winterizing), and despite the fact they are nearly new and hardly dirty there is still plenty of oil left inside after sitting all winter long hole side down.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: rshaw125
Looks like the filter did it's job. Maybe a dirty engine? Sure looks like a small filter.


The PL14459 has ~85 sq-in of media area. Not too bad for the size of the can.

The PL14610 can be used in place of the PL14459 if there is room for additional can length. The PL14610 has ~105 sq-in of media area. I've used both on my '04 Altima V6.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: 2010_FX4
This is the same filter that fits my daughter's Hyundai Elantra. I had a pleat open on the inside of a P1 (it was a 5.5K run) and have since switched to Wix on her car.


I had a Classic L14459 with a torn pleat once too. The last 14459 was used up in my stock, but was the PureOne PL14459. I've noticed via measurements that the PL14459 actually has a couple extra pleats than the Classic (61 vs 59). I think that is why the Classic had a media tear/failure as can be seen in the link below (pleat folded over too far from oil flow and tore at pleat base). I'm now using the PL14610 which has more media area and also seems to have tighter pleats around the media seam, so less chance of pleats folding over from oil flow.

Here's a link to the 14459 that tore on me.
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...902#Post2260902

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: Jim Allen

2) I now know that the P1 is nowhere near a 10K filter. Not enough capacity. I learned that even with a clean engine, some media just doesn't have the capacity for a long run.


If your engine is as clean as you say, that filter was probably not loaded up as much as you think. You can't go by "wavy" pleats ... as I said, mine looked the same with only 5K on it with a super clean engine (Altima V6 with 45K miles).

As Purolator says on their website, they make the claim that their filters will last to the car manufacturer's OCI recommendation.

So what is the Honda OCI for the service you've put this car through ... 7,500 OCIs ??

 

[MinamiKotaro]

Originally Posted By: MinamiKotaro
This filter looks fine to me. I've seen filters with a lot less miles look just as "bad".

I doubt it was completely clogged. A PL30001 is rated to hold ~9 grams of contaminant. A healthy engine won't shed anywhere near 9 grams of crud in 10,000 miles.

This filter looks much smaller than a PL30001 but I'll wager the capcity is still more than enough for a 10K run.


Whoops. The PL30001 size is rated for 13 grams.

 

[bullwinkle]

I wonder how far down the PL20195 would stick out-that's the filter size I run on my wife's xB, now about 5500 miles into a 8K run on M1 EP (actually it may be a Fram XG3600, got both in the stash)-seems twice as big as the PL14459.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: bullwinkle
I wonder how far down the PL20195 would stick out-that's the filter size I run on my wife's xB, now about 5500 miles into a 8K run on M1 EP (actually it may be a Fram XG3600, got both in the stash)-seems twice as big as the PL14459.


20195 is metric thread (M20 x 1.5) and 14459 is standard thread (3/4-16). No worky.

 

[KCJeep]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: bullwinkle
I wonder how far down the PL20195 would stick out-that's the filter size I run on my wife's xB, now about 5500 miles into a 8K run on M1 EP (actually it may be a Fram XG3600, got both in the stash)-seems twice as big as the PL14459.


20195 is metric thread (M20 x 1.5) and 14459 is standard thread (3/4-16). No worky.

x2

The PL20195 is the oversize for a PL10241, those do cross to the Fram 3600 and 3614 series, but the PL14459 is NOT part of that mix. There might be an oversize for it, but those aren't it.

 

[JOD]

Originally Posted By: Jim Allen


2) I now know that the P1 is nowhere near a 10K filter. Not enough capacity. I learned that even with a clean engine, some media just doesn't have the capacity for a long run. Since long drains are what I do, P1s are off the list for me. As are M1s, K&Ns and any other that use a blended media.



10K on cellulose blend media

The next one I ran out to 17K/two OCI's, and it looked identical. The capacity on that filter is listed as only 11 grams? Obviously I'm relying on my eyeball restriction gauge, but the filter didn't look anything like yours; pleats were totally uniform. I didn't post pics on the 17K filter only because it looked identical to the 10K filter. The efficiency is listed as 99% @ 20u.

Not sure what that all means, but just another data point. Maybe my engine is just cleaner?

 

[Jim Allen]

Some interesting commentary, gents. Thanks.

I took a lot of pics (full circle of the element) and sent them to an engineering contact at Parker Filtration and he said it looked like the filter "had seen some high Delta P" but basically agreed with most of you that it wasn't likely anything to sweat overall. I'm still taking the view that this is not really a 10K filter... at least not on one oil fill. I again lament my case of dropitis with the sample container because a UOA would have told me a lot.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Jim ... checkout this thread of mine. Same PureOne PL14459 filter, and pleats look similar. Like I said before, Purolators typically have wavy pleats after use ... seen it in many photos posted on this board by various members.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...807#Post2042807