P1 Autopsy- 10K Miles

[Jim Allen]

Here is the autopsy photos of the PL14459 (Honda app) P1 filter that was in service in my Honda for 9865 miles. I really, really regret having dropped the used oil analysis sample container into the drain pan because this filter did not do well. As you can see by the pics, the media is very wavy "mooshed" (hows that for technical jargon ( : < ) and distorted. My observation/interpretation is that this filter was very loaded and this effect was caused by high DP. Other evidence of that is that this filter was left to drain for about 40 days. When I cut it open, it was still full of oil. That is a testament to the ADBV, but the fact that the oil didn't drool through the media via gravity over 40 days tells me it was pretty loaded up. I took pics all the way around the circumference and the media was similarly effected as the one pic you see here. I shined a light around and did not see light, so the media didn't tear.

I also noted that the bypass valve (which looks to be a fiber material... if it were a Fram I guess you'd call it "cardboard" ( : < ) was blistered and bulged. The pic here doesn't do it justice but in any event the valve still seals.

My tentative conclusion is that this filter doesn't have the capacity for a 10K run. I used my last P1 at the change but midway through the next run, I will switch to a Fram Ultra.

 

[volk06]

How small is that filter? That media does look very loaded. Has this car ever had a previous history of contamination or sludge issues?

Fram ultra is a good solid filter. Only fram I'd use. The Purolator synthetic is the same price as a ultra around here at 9.99.

 

[AuthorEditor]

How much time was on the filter? Used over the winter by any chance? I'm wondering if there was some moisture in there. In any case, despite what we see here, the filter seems to have held up and done its job. The P1 media does filter better, so it will catch more crud.

 

[AVB]

I don't mean to sound rude, but what did you expect? You can either catch that stuff and fill up the filter, or let it circulate.

 

[bigjl]

You should have seen the insert filter I took out a friends Citreon, was so bad that when I pulled it the light hand pressure was enough to break the filter element!

I would personally have just sent off the UOA after I had picked it out of the drain pan, if the oil was still draining contamination of be sample would have been minimal surely.

 

[rshaw125]

Looks like the filter did it's job. Maybe a dirty engine? Sure looks like a small filter.

 

[volk06]

What's the black stuff on the top and side of the filter in pic 1? This leads to the next important question, which oil did you run?

 

[Jim Allen]

To all, as I said I really regret the misstep with the used oil analysis sample because it might have answered a lot of questions. I present this material mainly as an addition tot he knowledge base, though I do have an opinion. If anyone one wants to get defensive about me pointing out a negative aspect on a P1, bear in mind that this is what it is. I have nothing against the P1 and still think it's a good deal. It just may have met it's match in a 10K run on my car... not enough capacity.

The P1 uses a blended cellulose, synthetic media (a surface media essentially) which will have less capacity than a Full Synthetic media (which is a depth media).

volk06: Small filter and no sludge issues at all. Have had previous good used oil analysis at 8.5K, about 18 months and great looking autopsied filters (Napa Gold or Honda Filtec). Know all about the Ultra! Ultra and Puro Syn are serious bargains in high capacity, synthetic media filters.

AuthorEditor: It was an 18 month run. No moisure indicated. This car has an almost perfect operating cycle. We are very rural. When it runs, the minimum run is 10 miles at 55 mph+. Normal run is 21 miles at 55+. It gets good and warmed up when it runs!

AVB: The point is that this filter is advertised as a 10K filter. I ran other filters out to 8500 miles on the car and saw no hint of this kind of distortion. As I said above, this may simply be a case of 10K being "a bridge too far" for this filter.

 

[Jim Allen]

Originally Posted By: volk06
What's the black stuff on the top of the filter? Sure looks al lot like some sludge forming.


That's just the media potting that slobbered over during construction. Fairly normal.

 

[Jim Allen]

Originally Posted By: rshaw125
Looks like the filter did it's job. Maybe a dirty engine? Sure looks like a small filter.


Them's fighting words ( : < )! I have owned this car since it had 7 miles on it and it now has just 88K (2000 Honda Accord V6 BTW). Look thru the oil fill and you see bright steel and aluminum. Great UOA history going back at least 6 years. It ain't durt!

 

[BISCUT]

Originally Posted By: Jim Allen
To all, as I said I really regret the misstep with the used oil analysis sample because it might have answered a lot of questions. I present this material mainly as an addition tot he knowledge base, though I do have an opinion. If anyone one wants to get defensive about me pointing out a negative aspect on a P1, bear in mind that this is what it is. I have nothing against the P1 and still think it's a good deal. It just may have met it's match in a 10K run on my car... not enough capacity.

The P1 uses a blended cellulose, synthetic media (a surface media essentially) which will have less capacity than a Full Synthetic media (which is a depth media).

volk06: Small filter and no sludge issues at all. Have had previous good used oil analysis at 8.5K, about 18 months and great looking autopsied filters (Napa Gold or Honda Filtec). Know all about the Ultra! Ultra and Puro Syn are serious bargains in high capacity, synthetic media filters.

AuthorEditor: It was an 18 month run. No moisure indicated. This car has an almost perfect operating cycle. We are very rural. When it runs, the minimum run is 10 miles at 55 mph+. Normal run is 21 miles at 55+. It gets good and warmed up when it runs!

AVB: The point is that this filter is advertised as a 10K filter. I ran other filters out to 8500 miles on the car and saw no hint of this kind of distortion. As I said above, this may simply be a case of 10K being "a bridge too far" for this filter.


Not saying your wrong, maybe I'm missing something but I didn't think the P1 advertised as being a 10k.

You guys have me extending OCI's but I'm still to insane in the brain to go past 7k with M1 and P1....

 

[AVB]

Purolator PureONE oil filters should be replaced every 3,000 miles or 3 months depending on the driving conditions - or unless otherwise specified by the vehicle's manufacturer.

The only Purolator I see advertised as a 10,000 mile filter is the Synthetic.

 

[DuckRyder]

Originally Posted By: Jim Allen
....The point is that this filter is advertised as a 10K filter. ...


Do not think so: (Unless one intends to argue that Honda specifies a 10,000 interval)

Quote:
Purolator PureONE oil filters should be replaced every 3,000 miles or 3 months depending on the driving conditions - or unless otherwise specified by the vehicle's manufacturer.


http://www.purolatorautofilters.net/products/oil_filters/Pages/pureoneoilfilters.aspx

The Synthetic is Purolators 10,000 filter.

Quote:
Purolator Synthetic Oil Filters are a long-lasting filter, providing engine protection for 10,000 miles.


http://www.purolatorautofilters.net/products/oil_filters/Pages/SyntheticOilFilters.aspx

 

[UNC151]

This is the same filter that fits my daughter's Hyundai Elantra. I had a pleat open on the inside of a P1 (it was a 5.5K run) and have since switched to Wix on her car. She short trips like crazy so long runs are not in her future, but I was surprised about the P1 since they are normally very good filters. No problems thus far with the WIX. I stocked up on WIX by returning all of the Microgards that I had to OR.

I will be interested to see how the Fram holds up on your Honda...

 

[Chris Meutsch]

I use the PL14610's on my Honda's and run one for 10k on my CR-V. That's only over about 3 months however. I still trust it.

 

[KCJeep]

Several pictures on here lately are confirming the P1 is not an extended drain filter, but they are still great filters.

I'd think the Ultra you're pondering would do well for you, or half OCI filter changes with the P1.

 

[AVB]

The Pure1 is 99.9% efficient at 20 microns compaired with 99% at 25 microns for the Purolator Synthetic.

It is a compromise, to go longer you have to filter less. The Synthetic is also rated to hold about twice the contaminates by weight than the P1.

 

[cp3]

Thanx for sharing Jim!

Wow, that media does look pretty dark! Any chance you still have it to wrap in paper towel for a couple days?

 

[bourne]

Where does purolator advertise this as a 10k oci filter ?

 

[Jim Allen]

1) I stand corrected on the 10K. It was stuck in my head for some reason.

2) I now know that the P1 is nowhere near a 10K filter. Not enough capacity. I learned that even with a clean engine, some media just doesn't have the capacity for a long run. Since long drains are what I do, P1s are off the list for me. As are M1s, K&Ns and any other that use a blended media.

3) The Fram Ultra, RP and others are 99%@ 20um and advertise long 10-15K intervals. You CAN have it both ways. I presume everyone here knows the difference between a depth-loaded media (full syn) and a surface-loaded (cellulose or blended) media.

4) My intention is to change the P1 at 5K with an Ultra. I will autopsy both filters. That will give me some clues about the Ultra and perhaps show the P1 in a better light by working it within it's limits.