To fix that code on our 97 chevy truck, we had to replace the cat on the bank that was showing the problem.
P0420 after long drive?
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Originally Posted by Trav
Originally Posted by dogememe
Use Motorcraft or Denso NOT Bosch o2 sensors.
Why not? Any data whatsoever showing them to be less functional than any other? Don't say the proof is on internet forums where lots of guys say so. DATA!
Ford uses Bosch AFR sensors as OE!!!! No one has ANY data to back their claim!
Originally Posted by dogememe
Use Motorcraft or Denso NOT Bosch o2 sensors.
Why not? Any data whatsoever showing them to be less functional than any other? Don't say the proof is on internet forums where lots of guys say so. DATA!
Ford uses Bosch AFR sensors as OE!!!! No one has ANY data to back their claim!
Originally Posted by Vikas
It does not matter what scientific explanation is. There are some people who sincerely believe that changing O2 sensor will fix their P0420/P0430 problems. Let them learn the hard way.
I know. 420/430 threads come up every week or so, but I thought I would put in my two cents this time. Im hopeful my more through explanation would help some understand as to why its nearly 100% of the time a bad cat.
It does not matter what scientific explanation is. There are some people who sincerely believe that changing O2 sensor will fix their P0420/P0430 problems. Let them learn the hard way.
I know. 420/430 threads come up every week or so, but I thought I would put in my two cents this time. Im hopeful my more through explanation would help some understand as to why its nearly 100% of the time a bad cat.
The efficiency of the cats are reduced, not shot, especially if this is the first time the light came on. Unless the honeycomb is melted and causing a restriction, just toss a pair of O2 sensor spacers on that thing.
Originally Posted by Colt45ws
Originally Posted by Vikas
It does not matter what scientific explanation is. There are some people who sincerely believe that changing O2 sensor will fix their P0420/P0430 problems. Let them learn the hard way.
I know. 420/430 threads come up every week or so, but I thought I would put in my two cents this time. Im hopeful my more through explanation would help some understand as to why its nearly 100% of the time a bad cat.
^^^^
I agree... Been here done this... Lots of fun
Originally Posted by Vikas
It does not matter what scientific explanation is. There are some people who sincerely believe that changing O2 sensor will fix their P0420/P0430 problems. Let them learn the hard way.
I know. 420/430 threads come up every week or so, but I thought I would put in my two cents this time. Im hopeful my more through explanation would help some understand as to why its nearly 100% of the time a bad cat.
^^^^
I agree... Been here done this... Lots of fun
Originally Posted by Purpfox
Unless you can watch the waveform of both fwd and rear sensors, your not going to get far. And yes anti foulers work when you build them right lol. Verify proper voltage range of the rear o2 if within normal range, sensor is good. or always swap bank one to bank 2 and see if code follows or stays put. simple trouble shooting save you a ton of wasted money
This vehicle has AFR/Wide Band upstream sensors, Comparing voltage to the Narrow Band rear sensors does no good.
Unless you can watch the waveform of both fwd and rear sensors, your not going to get far. And yes anti foulers work when you build them right lol. Verify proper voltage range of the rear o2 if within normal range, sensor is good. or always swap bank one to bank 2 and see if code follows or stays put. simple trouble shooting save you a ton of wasted money
This vehicle has AFR/Wide Band upstream sensors, Comparing voltage to the Narrow Band rear sensors does no good.
My old 2001 Windstar had the same code after a very long cross country trip years back. Luckily it was still under the emissions warranty and the dealer replaced pretty much the whole exhaust system (cats and O2 sensors).
Originally Posted by clinebarger
Originally Posted by Purpfox
Unless you can watch the waveform of both fwd and rear sensors, your not going to get far. And yes anti foulers work when you build them right lol. Verify proper voltage range of the rear o2 if within normal range, sensor is good. or always swap bank one to bank 2 and see if code follows or stays put. simple trouble shooting save you a ton of wasted money
This vehicle has AFR/Wide Band upstream sensors, Comparing voltage to the Narrow Band rear sensors does no good.
If you know what it should look like you dont need to compare to the forward....
Originally Posted by Purpfox
Unless you can watch the waveform of both fwd and rear sensors, your not going to get far. And yes anti foulers work when you build them right lol. Verify proper voltage range of the rear o2 if within normal range, sensor is good. or always swap bank one to bank 2 and see if code follows or stays put. simple trouble shooting save you a ton of wasted money
This vehicle has AFR/Wide Band upstream sensors, Comparing voltage to the Narrow Band rear sensors does no good.
If you know what it should look like you dont need to compare to the forward....
Originally Posted by clinebarger
Originally Posted by Trav
Originally Posted by dogememe
Use Motorcraft or Denso NOT Bosch o2 sensors.
Why not? Any data whatsoever showing them to be less functional than any other? Don't say the proof is on internet forums where lots of guys say so. DATA!
Ford uses Bosch AFR sensors as OE!!!! No one has ANY data to back their claim!
I just removed a pair from a good working Subaru cat that I need to weld flanges on, both are OE and you guessed it.. Bosch. Imagine that a Japanese car running Bosch OE that have gone 22 years and 250K and were still functioning, sounds like cheap rubbish to me.
Now the old scooby doo gets all junk parts, 2 new Bosch sensors, Bosch OE fine wire plugs.
Originally Posted by Trav
Originally Posted by dogememe
Use Motorcraft or Denso NOT Bosch o2 sensors.
Why not? Any data whatsoever showing them to be less functional than any other? Don't say the proof is on internet forums where lots of guys say so. DATA!
Ford uses Bosch AFR sensors as OE!!!! No one has ANY data to back their claim!
I just removed a pair from a good working Subaru cat that I need to weld flanges on, both are OE and you guessed it.. Bosch. Imagine that a Japanese car running Bosch OE that have gone 22 years and 250K and were still functioning, sounds like cheap rubbish to me.
Now the old scooby doo gets all junk parts, 2 new Bosch sensors, Bosch OE fine wire plugs.
Originally Posted by Falcon_LS
What's wrong with Bosch oxygen sensors? I've got them on my XJ8L, Expedition and SRX. Am I missing something?
There isn't a problem with Bosch parts where they were original OE parts, there has been some issues with Bosch in applications that spec'ed other brands from the factory originally.
Myself included have used Bosch emission components and spark plugs instead of the OE brand it originally came with and had issues with it causing the CEL to come on or in the case of spark plugs, poor performance.
Changed it out for another Bosch and same problem would reappear, then I went back to the brand it came with such as NTK or Denso or whatever and the problem goes away.
I have tried this numerous time due to part availability and taking the chance on a Bosch part instead of the OE brand it originally came with and it would almost certainly have issues every time. Not all the time, but more times than not.
So I'm not sure if it's the allowable tolerance being out on the Bosch parts that causes it or if it's because the vehicles that had Bosch parts from the OE were calibrated specifically for that part and others were calibrated for whatever brands they came with originally like NTK, Denso etc. and the ECM's throw a fit if it doesn't fit into really strict values.
To be clear, this has never happened when using Bosch in an application where it was replacing and existing Bosch part though unless the part was defective to begin with but that can happen with any manufacturer.
What's wrong with Bosch oxygen sensors? I've got them on my XJ8L, Expedition and SRX. Am I missing something?
There isn't a problem with Bosch parts where they were original OE parts, there has been some issues with Bosch in applications that spec'ed other brands from the factory originally.
Myself included have used Bosch emission components and spark plugs instead of the OE brand it originally came with and had issues with it causing the CEL to come on or in the case of spark plugs, poor performance.
Changed it out for another Bosch and same problem would reappear, then I went back to the brand it came with such as NTK or Denso or whatever and the problem goes away.
I have tried this numerous time due to part availability and taking the chance on a Bosch part instead of the OE brand it originally came with and it would almost certainly have issues every time. Not all the time, but more times than not.
So I'm not sure if it's the allowable tolerance being out on the Bosch parts that causes it or if it's because the vehicles that had Bosch parts from the OE were calibrated specifically for that part and others were calibrated for whatever brands they came with originally like NTK, Denso etc. and the ECM's throw a fit if it doesn't fit into really strict values.
To be clear, this has never happened when using Bosch in an application where it was replacing and existing Bosch part though unless the part was defective to begin with but that can happen with any manufacturer.
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Oh brother not again with this absolute horse manure. Prove it with some real testing data. Bosch invented the Lambda everyone else copied it for cripes sake.
Originally Posted by Trav
Oh brother not again with this absolute horse manure. Prove it with some real testing data. Bosch invented the Lambda everyone else copied it for cripes sake.
Just telling you the experiences we have had is all. I can't explain it and alluded to that. I also said that where Bosch was the original brand of part that was being replaced that it always seemed to work fine. It's not brand bias, it's just real world experiences. Sorry.
I'm glad it works for you in EVERY instance but there are a bunch of us that have had an opposite experience. Maybe it's related to factories on this shore that make the parts that have issues who knows the real cause or if it's like I said and it's related to a particular OE being super fussy and calibrated for a specific brand that differs slightly from Bosch who invented it. Honest truth is I don't know.
Oh brother not again with this absolute horse manure. Prove it with some real testing data. Bosch invented the Lambda everyone else copied it for cripes sake.
Just telling you the experiences we have had is all. I can't explain it and alluded to that. I also said that where Bosch was the original brand of part that was being replaced that it always seemed to work fine. It's not brand bias, it's just real world experiences. Sorry.
I'm glad it works for you in EVERY instance but there are a bunch of us that have had an opposite experience. Maybe it's related to factories on this shore that make the parts that have issues who knows the real cause or if it's like I said and it's related to a particular OE being super fussy and calibrated for a specific brand that differs slightly from Bosch who invented it. Honest truth is I don't know.
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The ECM is not calibrated for this brand or that one, it uses values between x-y that's it. There is nothing special about NTK, Denso, etc, nothing at all and of course they work in every instance if that was the issue in the first place and its the correct part for the car.
A new O2/AFM is not putting a P420 out if the cats bad its that simple, its job is to maintain stoichiometric that's all and the rear to monitor. Show me any proof at all other than internet B.S.that a Bosch sensor is deficient in any way at doing that. There is none!
https://www.aa1car.com/library/wraf.htm
A new O2/AFM is not putting a P420 out if the cats bad its that simple, its job is to maintain stoichiometric that's all and the rear to monitor. Show me any proof at all other than internet B.S.that a Bosch sensor is deficient in any way at doing that. There is none!
https://www.aa1car.com/library/wraf.htm
Originally Posted by Trav
The ECM is not calibrated for this brand or that one, it uses values between x-y that's it. There is nothing special about NTK, Denso, etc, nothing at all and of course they work in every instance if that was the issue in the first place and its the correct part for the car.
A new O2/AFM is not putting a P420 out if the cats bad its that simple, its job is to maintain stoichiometric that's all and the rear to monitor. Show me any proof at all other than internet B.S.that a Bosch sensor is deficient in any way at doing that. There is none!
https://www.aa1car.com/library/wraf.htm
Did you miss the part where I said I didn't know the reason short of it being the Bosch used in a non-bosch original application where the problem exists?
Second, while this might be "usually" the case with this model of vehicle it's ALWAYS best to verify using a scan tool to be sure it isn't something simple like the AFR or 02 sensor first before shooting parts at it just because that is usually what it is.
The ECM is not calibrated for this brand or that one, it uses values between x-y that's it. There is nothing special about NTK, Denso, etc, nothing at all and of course they work in every instance if that was the issue in the first place and its the correct part for the car.
A new O2/AFM is not putting a P420 out if the cats bad its that simple, its job is to maintain stoichiometric that's all and the rear to monitor. Show me any proof at all other than internet B.S.that a Bosch sensor is deficient in any way at doing that. There is none!
https://www.aa1car.com/library/wraf.htm
Did you miss the part where I said I didn't know the reason short of it being the Bosch used in a non-bosch original application where the problem exists?
Second, while this might be "usually" the case with this model of vehicle it's ALWAYS best to verify using a scan tool to be sure it isn't something simple like the AFR or 02 sensor first before shooting parts at it just because that is usually what it is.
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Yep I always just throw parts at it.
No, I didn't miss anything you said...
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there has been some issues with Bosch in applications that spec'ed other brands from the factory originally.
Myself included have used Bosch emission components and spark plugs instead of the OE brand it originally came with and had issues with it causing the CEL to come on or in the case of spark plugs, poor performance.
Changed it out for another Bosch and same problem would reappear, then I went back to the brand it came with such as NTK or Denso or whatever and the problem goes away.
In what book do you find which brand is specified to use or it wont work properly, I need a copy.
Quote
there has been some issues with Bosch in applications that spec'ed other brands from the factory originally.
Myself included have used Bosch emission components and spark plugs instead of the OE brand it originally came with and had issues with it causing the CEL to come on or in the case of spark plugs, poor performance.
Changed it out for another Bosch and same problem would reappear, then I went back to the brand it came with such as NTK or Denso or whatever and the problem goes away.
In what book do you find which brand is specified to use or it wont work properly, I need a copy.
Really you're asking that question? Don't be an arse. You know what I'm getting at. If it had NTK or Denso or Bosch from the factory and it's emission component related or spark plugs I would use exactly what it came with in terms of brand. If that isn't available then I would try reputable brands like NTK/Denso in applications that didn't originally have Bosch.
I'm sure you have information available that shows you what it was equipped with or is that just North America?
AGAIN... Been our (mine and my actual father who is a licensed mechanic of 50 years) experiences along with others here that Bosch in a Non-Bosch originally equipped application can cause problems.
Done with this now.
I'm sure you have information available that shows you what it was equipped with or is that just North America?
AGAIN... Been our (mine and my actual father who is a licensed mechanic of 50 years) experiences along with others here that Bosch in a Non-Bosch originally equipped application can cause problems.
Done with this now.
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I just want you to prove what you are saying, you cant and we both know it. No need to get your knickers in a twist. How would you know what was OE if you didn't own the car from new and did all the repairs yourself?
I have no idea if a sensor was swapped out at some point when I service a car, it may well have had a x brand in it and someone swapped it for a another brand.
I have no idea if a sensor was swapped out at some point when I service a car, it may well have had a x brand in it and someone swapped it for a another brand.
Want to argue further?
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Whats the point? Sure NTK, Denso and Bosch are OE suppliers but that doesn't mean they have to used exclusively. The rest is internet drivel based on here say, if Bosch products were so bad why do OE still use them? Why are they still in business since 1886?
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