radiators dont usually plug in a day.Original post said my car started overheating yesterday.If water was in a cylinder you would have white smoke and coolant level would be lowered,not expanding out of radiator{overflow tube}.Besides water doesnt compress,so the problem wouldnt last too long before piston ventilation.Its hard to tell a customer he needs 1k worth of engine work when its "just overheating".I would drain the anti freeze,fill it with straight water and a little dish detergent and trade it in{detergent breaks surface tension,straight water has better heat transfer}.Its unethical,but alls fair in the used car game.Whew,all that typing made me tired.Where did I put my beer?
Overheating Mystery
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can you use a vaccum guage to detect a head gasket failure?
An oddball problem that occurs its that the impeller vanes on the WP are slipping, or corroded away.
Among a dozen other things, consider this if all else fails.
It has tripped us up a few times in the shop.
Among a dozen other things, consider this if all else fails.
It has tripped us up a few times in the shop.
I have run into that before too,but usually on stuff that has been poorly maintained.Vacuum gauge wont help diagnose head gasket,but it is without a doubt one of the greatest and least used diagnostic tools in the world.Tool trucks sell a tube with a reactive dye that you can put over radiator cap opening to detect combustion gasses.Or any shop will be glad to do it for you for a couple of bucks.
"radiators dont usually plug in a day.Original post said my car started overheating yesterday."
You are 100% correct. They plug up over time, but the problem can suddenly show up in a day, once enough blockage occurs to prevent sufficient heat transfer. I am not saying this is your problem, but it is a fairly common one that should be ruled out. Put your hand on the upper rad hose and squeeze it, then rev up the engine, the hose will increase pressure substantially if rad is plugged. Thermostat must be open (engine hot), and you might need to wear a glove.
You are 100% correct. They plug up over time, but the problem can suddenly show up in a day, once enough blockage occurs to prevent sufficient heat transfer. I am not saying this is your problem, but it is a fairly common one that should be ruled out. Put your hand on the upper rad hose and squeeze it, then rev up the engine, the hose will increase pressure substantially if rad is plugged. Thermostat must be open (engine hot), and you might need to wear a glove.
If it actually started yesterday I would go with a clogged radiator. Usually a cheap, easy, DIY repair. Even if it doesn't solve your problem, you've got a new radiator that won't fail some hot day next summer. If you've ever added anything other than DISTILLED water to your cooling system, then its clogged with the miriad of chemicals that municipalities seem fit to add to our water. These chemicals, under heat and pressure, form different salts that clog the fine membrane of your radiator.
I didnt mean to start a debate,only offer my insight on what I have found in the past.I have watched a lot of cash get thrown at a problem,when the actual repair would have been cheaper and less frustrating.This is how I make a living.A plugged radiator is certainly a possibility.I have also seen dirt packed into the fins that would cause car to overheat when spring rolled around,but as long as it was cold outside problem would never surface.I am just trying to offer my .02 as what most probable cause is.A 5 minute test will determine the combustion chambers condition.There are certainly many other factors involved,I am just trying to focus on the most likely.I hate seeing people dump a grand into a car trying to fix it only to bring it in anyway and have to spend another grand getting the right repair done to it,when the residual value of the car is 3 or 4 k at the most,hence my advice to dump it.
My last post I promise.I had a cavalier bought at auction from county gov.Never ran hot,even going through poconos with air on.Changed leaky water pump one day and looked at radiator core.It was plugged to the point where maybe one row was passing enough coolant to keep engine from boiling over.When I took out the radiator it weighed 90 pounds.The only reason it didnt leak was because the calcification plugged all the holes in the core.Radiatior guy said it was the worst he had ever seen.Tried to clean twice.Finally gave up and bought mexican modine.Funny thing is the car didnt run that much cooler with new rad.Found out the county recycled their own anti freeze.Point being it takes a lot of internal clogging to cause an overheat prob.Whatever the prob turns out to be I hope its a cheap and easy one to fix.
Who says he has to dump a grand into it? Now about this---
"I would drain the anti freeze,fill it with straight water and a little dish detergent and trade it in{detergent breaks surface tension,straight water has better heat transfer}.Its unethical,but alls fair in the used car game.Whew,all that typing made me tired.Where did I put my beer?" and this--
This is how I make a living.
If these are your ethics, I'm glad I'm on the west coast to stay as far away from your shop as possible. I, am not debating you or anyone else, I am offering suggestions based on my 30 years of past experience. You offer your suggestions (sell it and screw the next guy), I'll offer mine (find the problem and DIY repair).
"I would drain the anti freeze,fill it with straight water and a little dish detergent and trade it in{detergent breaks surface tension,straight water has better heat transfer}.Its unethical,but alls fair in the used car game.Whew,all that typing made me tired.Where did I put my beer?" and this--
This is how I make a living.
If these are your ethics, I'm glad I'm on the west coast to stay as far away from your shop as possible. I, am not debating you or anyone else, I am offering suggestions based on my 30 years of past experience. You offer your suggestions (sell it and screw the next guy), I'll offer mine (find the problem and DIY repair).
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Your right.Put a radiator in it.With your vast 30 years of DIY experience,I would ignore the all the signs of headgasket failure.When the radiator doesnt fix it,tell him to get a frontend alignment{so the car will get better airflow}.After he gets tired of parts swapping he will wind up at a shop somewhere paying for a headgasket.Im not sure how many radiators you have changed,but Im willing to bet I have done a few more.If the problem was the radiator chances are real good it wouldnt overheat at idle,just under load{might want to take notes}.As far as my ethics,I would have no qualms trading a car with a rod knock,slipping transmission or small fire in the backseat.Its then the dealers issue.He will decide weather to fix it or dump it at auction.Either way the car has no residual value.Hopefully he wont sink 2k in a 2500 car,but the truth is I see it all the time.Advice from armchair mechanics is usually worth what it costs.
it's my girlfriends car, don't worry - it's been maintained.
she drove to pick her sis up from work, car was cold....she drove 20 mins and then it got hot like that, she pulled over and some coolant had come out of the overflow tube....not a lot, probably a little boil over. Never ever got hot before, nothing.
I just hope I don't crack the new housing - how should I put it on? tighten it up with the gasket and RTV and just let it sit until the RTV cures then check for leaks?
she drove to pick her sis up from work, car was cold....she drove 20 mins and then it got hot like that, she pulled over and some coolant had come out of the overflow tube....not a lot, probably a little boil over. Never ever got hot before, nothing.
I just hope I don't crack the new housing - how should I put it on? tighten it up with the gasket and RTV and just let it sit until the RTV cures then check for leaks?
If its an oring or anything like that put it on dry.If its a paper gasket put small ribbon around both sides of gasket,let it tack up for 10 or 15 minutes and carefully bolt it together.If it leaks try again with less rtv.Aluminum wont stand up to a lot of torque so work carefully.You want the rtv pliable enough to conform but hard enough not bond everything together.I hope that fixes your car.I was just trying to give you a heads up on what you could be facing.I gave away a plymouth sundance with a 2.2 to a girl that drove it for many years with a blown headgasket.Always ran hot,but always ran.I just hate seeing people dump money into a car that isnt worth a whole lot to begin with.The description of the car getting hot enough to boil after short trip[assuming fan and stat are working}is textbook headgasket.But thats just a guess and take it as such.I hope its a cheap and simple fix.Good luck and keep us posted.
I appreciate the help, do head gaskets usually just go like that? out of nowhere even with good care?
the gasket is rubber, and it's flat... the book said that you usually use RTV - but said to tighten it up to torque specs then refill with coolant (said to drain it completely which I did not) and start it up and check for leaks so apparently they don't care if the RTV is wet or dry. Will do the 15 minute thing, it was weird cause I put the gasket on the housing - put thermostat into engine and lined it up with the jiggle pin at 12 o'clock, put housing on and tightened it up pretty f'in good and it leaked out the top! only thing I can think of is a tiny piece of old gasket was baked onto the housing and it wouldn't come off, would have to use a dremel...could possibly have left just the tiniest of gaps.
the gasket is rubber, and it's flat... the book said that you usually use RTV - but said to tighten it up to torque specs then refill with coolant (said to drain it completely which I did not) and start it up and check for leaks so apparently they don't care if the RTV is wet or dry. Will do the 15 minute thing, it was weird cause I put the gasket on the housing - put thermostat into engine and lined it up with the jiggle pin at 12 o'clock, put housing on and tightened it up pretty f'in good and it leaked out the top! only thing I can think of is a tiny piece of old gasket was baked onto the housing and it wouldn't come off, would have to use a dremel...could possibly have left just the tiniest of gaps.
"My last post I promise." and "Your right.Put a radiator in it." and "tell him to get a frontend alignment." and "As far as my ethics,I would have no qualms trading a car with a rod knock,slipping transmission or small fire in the backseat.Its then the dealers issue."
Are you trying to be a moron or are you naturally one. I did not tell him to "put a radiator in it". I told him to check for a plugged radiator. Perhaps you don't know this can be checked. Why would you tell him to get a front end alignment? Oh, thats right your "in the business" (of ripping people off perhaps). I can tell by your "ethics" as you state. You have no ethics. It appears here that if someone doesn't agree with your "magic 8 ball" diagnosis ("magic 8 ball says.....head gasket!") you want to jump all over them. It could be a head gasket. It could also be a plugged radiator. Get over yourself!
Are you trying to be a moron or are you naturally one. I did not tell him to "put a radiator in it". I told him to check for a plugged radiator. Perhaps you don't know this can be checked. Why would you tell him to get a front end alignment? Oh, thats right your "in the business" (of ripping people off perhaps). I can tell by your "ethics" as you state. You have no ethics. It appears here that if someone doesn't agree with your "magic 8 ball" diagnosis ("magic 8 ball says.....head gasket!") you want to jump all over them. It could be a head gasket. It could also be a plugged radiator. Get over yourself!
Hey another Toad.I guess internet trolls are everywhere.I cant compete in this battle of wits with you as it is disrespectful to the forum and you are only half prepared.Please dispense some more pearls of wisdom perched comfortably from your armchair while I attempt to help this young man fix his automobile.Perhaps you should tell him to adjust his wheel bearings, so it will lessen the drag on the engine?You remind me of my old boss.He didnt know much either.Anyway feel free to assail my character from the anonimity of your keyboard.I wont respond in your whose is bigger contest anymore,but please leave the diagnostics to those who can,not to those who just watched an episode of overhaulin or american hot rod.Good day to you,sur!
Head gaskets are robust and rarely "just fail". Over time (9-10 years}the head bolts can loose tension and you'll develop an imperceptable leak that will eventually "blow" the gasket. Experienced mechanics will re-torque the head bolts, but this is best perfomed on the 2 extremes of diesel engines and single cylinder O.P.E. as these engines are always working over-time as part of their funtion. I will add that a "spot" over-heating incident can and probably will trash your head-gasket. Your radiator has been slowly clogging over the cooler winter and now that its warming, you are beginning to really notice it?? That how I see it.
Did you ever stop to think that if he spent the $2k elsewhere - on another used car, it may just as very well be in even worse shape? Maybe he can use the $2K elsewhere, but then again, maybe he doesn't want or can't afford long-term car payments, if he goes to a newer car.
I myself just dumped close to $2k in a 10yr old truck last year that's probably only worth $4k now - but you know what, that was money VERY well spent, as this 10-yr old truck runs much better then many of the newer cars on the road today.
Sometimes a vehicle is going to require something more then the norm, that's all a part of vehicle maintenance, and it's generally MUCH cheaper in the long run to fix the problem on a paid-off car - in reasonable shape of course - then it is to buy new.
I for one replaced 2 headgaskets on an '85 Toyota p/up over the course of the 15yrs that we owned it - yes, those gasket replacements & the one engine replacement WAS more then the truck was worth; but we still came out thousands ahead then if we had bought a newer truck when the 1st gasket went.
When the 3rd gasket went at close to 300k & 22yrs of age, along with terrible body rust, that's when we made the decision it was done for and traded it for a much newer Tacoma; we still got $1,750 for the old one.
But, now we have car payments again, and our insurance is a bit higher because it's 20-some years newer, and we also have a higher gas bill because it's a V6 averaging 22mpg; versus our old 4-cylinder that averaged 35mpg.
Point is, I've seen some older cars get thrown $2-3k and the owner comes out fairing better financially then if they'd just given up & bought a new car; depending on how frequent that repair tends to be.
My oldest truck is now at 172k miles & 10yrs old, rides nicer, looks shinier, and runs healthier then the 4yr old Chevy truck the guy beside me drives; I would have no problems throwing another $2k at it, if it came to that.
If the thermostat gasket is rubber and flat, does it have a groove on the inside? If so, you need to slip the rubber gasket around the thermostat (it's a grooved sealing ring) and DO NOT use RTV. Plus, torque figures for thermostat housings are usually like inch pounds. My car is 80 inch pounds. No need to get Conan the Barbarian like tightness on it!
Have you checked the tightness of the water pump belt? I'd also consider the water pump before you go further.
Have you checked the tightness of the water pump belt? I'd also consider the water pump before you go further.
belt seems tight, it does need replacing though....it spins like it always has.
gasket is flat, no groove.
I considered the water pump -
book said to warm car up and turn on the heater, if the heater blows hot air then #1 the coolant is circulating through the heater core, and #2 the water pump works cause it's circulating, and it blew hot air.
hopefully the housing gets here by wednesday, it's from kia in riverside.... $14!
gasket is flat, no groove.
I considered the water pump -
book said to warm car up and turn on the heater, if the heater blows hot air then #1 the coolant is circulating through the heater core, and #2 the water pump works cause it's circulating, and it blew hot air.
hopefully the housing gets here by wednesday, it's from kia in riverside.... $14!
Try checking your radiator hoses, every once in a while the bottom radiator hose will loose its strength and it will collapse. When the engine is running at a speed higher than idle. When this happens water will not get pulled into the water pump in the volume needed to cool the engine and it will over heat.
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