Only 10 Models Qualify for Full 2024 EV Tax Credit?

[JeffKeryk]

It's got to be a narrow wave of people actually getting full credits if it goes away after $150k a year single or $300k married. I'm sure it takes at least $100k to get the full credit by having enough taxable income. We're nowhere near the top 5% of wage earners at this level. It must be a narrow gap of between 15% and 18% if I had to guess. Last I heard about 18% make $100k or more.


I don't know if its something to turn down if he could. I thought that was all after purchase and filed with taxes. I don't know though, they don't shy away from advertising it on the Tesla website.

A single taxpayer making $70,000 would owe $8200 Federal Tax and would be in the 22% bracket.
FICA would add another $5300; I am not sure if this plays into the numbers.

I believe this is correct but I am no tax specialist. I just pay and pay and pay. It's a nice problem to have, FYI.
Here's a tax estimator.

 

[2strokeNorthstar]

I don't think people that buy at least the high end models will not buy one just because of this.

They kicked off the lower end Teslas which makes zero sense

 

[proveitwithdata]

They kicked off the lower end Teslas which makes zero sense

The interesting part is the vehicles that make Tesla the most money are also the ones that have the tax credit.

The other half of the market that stands to gain from 2024 is the used ev car dealer. I assume we shall inflated selling prices here as well.

 

[proveitwithdata]

Tesla shouldn't get any as Musk keeps saying how stupid subsidies are. Not seeing them turn those down. If you want an ev get one if not don't.

There is a disconnect between what Musk says and what his company advisers push. For the subsidy, Musk says subsidies are bad, but Tesla advisors were trying to push dc to reclassify the model y into a suv

 

[Torrid]

A single taxpayer making $70,000 would owe $8200 Federal Tax and would be in the 22% bracket.
FICA would add another $5300; I am not sure if this plays into the numbers.

I believe this is correct but I am no tax specialist. I just pay and pay and pay. It's a nice problem to have, FYI.
Here's a tax estimator.

Yeah my numbers are off of head of household. I didn’t think of that. It means I’d need $300k not to qualify and I don’t see that in my future anytime soon.

 

[OVERKILL]

Tesla is switching cars to Cobalt free non-flammable LIFEPO4 batteries which causes the credit to decrease/drop

Simple as that

IIRC, those are the cells that were used in the battery that caught fire in Australia at Victoria, so they are "less" flammable.

 

[alarmguy]

Yeah it didn't stop me from our purchase either. The whole process of a tax credit just seems pointless.

To some maybe, if we purchased an EV the tax credit would be the only reason I would purchase.
It would be our second car but it does not have to be an EV and I wouldnt spend extra money on an EV compared to ICE.
Does not make any sense for our family. The only reason I would buy is second car convenience, no maintenance for a car that just drives locally and never on trips. We use the SUV for long trips and comfort.

My wife also brought up a great point the other day. She knows I am interested in a small EV and she is fine with it. Then she brings up her current 2012 Mazda with 95,000 on it and still mint condition. We are surprised for what we paid for the car, one year old used still under factory warranty at the time, what a deal will give us in a trade or just put it on Facebook and it will sell to some college kid in a minute. Not a dent on it, paint is good. Our depreciation in 10 ish years is only $8000 tops.
She feels if this was an EV and went to sell it 12 years later it would have been almost worthless and of course with current market conditions we would be paying way more, except something like a Bolt maybe with a rebate.

Anyway, contrary to some very few others felt in another thread on another subject this is not a knock on EVs. Just how a $7,500 free cash from my fellow taxpayers would play into our hands in deciding on an EV or not. I would not buy one without it.

We are I would think what one would consider borderline buyers. I suspect there are a lot of us. In the land of the free here in coastal Carolina EV penetration is very little. Mostly older affluent, one might ask why? It's not to save money on gas, which is cheap anyway. Currently $2.60 a gallon, Some as low as $2.51 and to me even $4 is reasonable taking inflation and increased taxes over the last 50 years. SO it begs the question for people in our position, why spend more money for an EV when I can have ICE, unless there is a rebate. The ICE will also be a bit larger for less money.

 

[alarmguy]

A single taxpayer making $70,000 would owe $8200 Federal Tax and would be in the 22% bracket.
FICA would add another $5300; I am not sure if this plays into the numbers.

I believe this is correct but I am no tax specialist. I just pay and pay and pay. It's a nice problem to have, FYI.
Here's a tax estimator.

This caught my attention! You know, in 40 years I never really looked hard at my tax returns, I guess at some point I might have. My accountant does them and I sign.
So Im not sure if that calculator takes into a account the standard deduction.

I see you are talking single and the standard deduction is $13,850 and for a married couple filing jointly you have an automatic deduction of $27,700 if you dont itemize. If you do itemize then it would be more than the $27,500 or you would be crazy to itemize. *LOL*

Anyway... just curious how that estimator is configured. I suspect maybe it does not take that into account but maybe it does.

 

[JeffKeryk]

This caught my attention! You know, in 40 years I never even looked hard at my tax returns. My accountant does them and I sign.
So Im not sure if that calculator takes into a account the standard deduction.

I see you are talking single and I dont know what the standard is but for a married couple filing jointly you have an automatic deduction of $27,300 if you dont itemize. If you do itemize then it would be more than the $27,500 or you would be crazy to itemize. *LOL*

@alarmguy I highly urge you to rethink your tax strategy. Accountants make mistakes all the freakin' time! I prepare my own tax return as well as others. Do not let this important financial task go unattended.

I believe in following tax law; I do not believe in paying extra.

As an example of accounting errors, my career as a business programmer was tied at the hip with finance. I have spent so much time validating accountant's numbers; I could do so because I had the power of a database.
Another example is mistakes a tax accountant made on my wife's taxes. A big penalty was incurred, more than once.

Bro, trust but verify!

 

[alarmguy]

@alarmguy I highly urge you to rethink your tax strategy. Accountants make mistakes all the freakin' time! I prepare my own tax return as well as others. Do not let this important financial task go unattended.

I believe in following tax law; I do not believe in paying extra.

As an example of accounting errors, my career as a business programmer was tied at the hip with finance. I have spent so much time validating accountant's numbers; I could do so because I had the power of a database.
Another example is mistakes a tax accountant made on my wife's taxes. A big penalty was incurred, more than once.

Bro, trust but verify!

I know what I am doing

 

[Rmay635703]

IIRC, those are the cells that were used in the battery that caught fire in Australia at Victoria, so they are "less" flammable.

Lead batteries can explode or light off but it takes extreme prejudice.
Wires themselves can flame off.

Similarly
I can post a video of a single 3.2 volt lifepo4 cell being driven at 8 volts for hours and it never flames off.

(This one is less boring)


Sort of the same problem that wood or plastic is flammable.

Very poor QC , natural disaster or pure stupidity can likely get anything to burn even things that are mostly inert

The difference between
Cobalt chemistries and LIFEPO4 is that one is like dynamite and other like a block of wood.

I’m sure with enough effort you can get the separators and plastic case to light but it’s not anything like cobalt

 

[OVERKILL]

Lead batteries can explode or light off but it takes extreme prejudice.
Wires themselves can flame off.

Similarly
I can post a video of a single 3.2 volt lifepo4 cell being driven at 8 volts for hours and it never flames off.

(This one is less boring)


Sort of the same problem that wood or plastic is flammable.

Very poor QC , natural disaster or pure stupidity can likely get anything to burn even things that are mostly inert

The difference between
Cobalt chemistries and LIFEPO4 is that one is like dynamite and other like a block of wood.

I’m sure with enough effort you can get the separators and plastic case to light but it’s not anything like cobalt

You stated that these batteries can't catch fire:

Tesla is switching cars to Cobalt free non-flammable LIFEPO4 batteries

When there has been evidence to the contrary.
The Tesla Megapack 2 is LFP:

And the Megapack 2 has caught fire:
Tesla Megapack Catches Fire In Australia, Continues To Burn Under Supervision (insideevs.com)

The Queensland site, which is owned and operated by renewable energy and storage developer Genex Power, features 40 Tesla Megapack 2.0 units, and one of those units – nicknamed “Big Bessie” – caught fire at about 7:45 PM local time, according to The Guardian, prompting authorities to warn nearby residents to stay indoors to avoid hazardous fumes.

Yes, LFP batteries do not catch fire as easily, and require higher temperatures in order to do so, so they are safer, but they still can, and do, catch fire. As I've pointed out in previous threads on this unusually controversial subject, grid scale facility fires appear to be much more common than with EV's.

 

[Skippy722]

@alarmguy I highly urge you to rethink your tax strategy. Accountants make mistakes all the freakin' time! I prepare my own tax return as well as others. Do not let this important financial task go unattended.

I believe in following tax law; I do not believe in paying extra.

As an example of accounting errors, my career as a business programmer was tied at the hip with finance. I have spent so much time validating accountant's numbers; I could do so because I had the power of a database.
Another example is mistakes a tax accountant made on my wife's taxes. A big penalty was incurred, more than once.

Bro, trust but verify!

I’ve got a slightly off topic question, mostly because my anxiety causes me to think about things that probably won’t happen… but it doesn’t hurt to be prepared. If anything were to happen to my truck (I pray nothing happens, I love my truck) an EV is pretty high on my short list. That or a sketchy FB marketplace beater lol

Does the EV tax credit kick in before or after child tax credits? I know the EV credit isn’t refundable and the child tax credits are partially refundable… I have found myself into the unique position of where the child tax credits basically cover my entire federal tax burden.

 

[alarmguy]

I’ve got a slightly off topic question, mostly because my anxiety causes me to think about things that probably won’t happen… but it doesn’t hurt to be prepared. If anything were to happen to my truck (I pray nothing happens, I love my truck) an EV is pretty high on my short list. That or a sketchy FB marketplace beater lol

Does the EV tax credit kick in before or after child tax credits? I know the EV credit isn’t refundable and the child tax credits are partially refundable… I have found myself into the unique position of where the child tax credits basically cover my entire federal tax burden.

Check with an accountant.
The EV credit gives you up to $7,500 of your tax liability.
So if you paid or owe tax money for that year you will be credited the amount up to $7,500 with a vechicle that qualifies.
With that said check with an accountant of which I am not

 

[proveitwithdata]

I’ve got a slightly off topic question, mostly because my anxiety causes me to think about things that probably won’t happen… but it doesn’t hurt to be prepared. If anything were to happen to my truck (I pray nothing happens, I love my truck) an EV is pretty high on my short list. That or a sketchy FB marketplace beater lol

Does the EV tax credit kick in before or after child tax credits? I know the EV credit isn’t refundable and the child tax credits are partially refundable… I have found myself into the unique position of where the child tax credits basically cover my entire federal tax burden.

Depends on what vehicle and how are you attempting to acquire said vehicle. Generally speaking if you are paying cash you have the greatest flexibility in acquiring a ev and structuring the deal accordingly without worrying about tax credit qualification.

 

[JeffKeryk]

I’ve got a slightly off topic question, mostly because my anxiety causes me to think about things that probably won’t happen… but it doesn’t hurt to be prepared. If anything were to happen to my truck (I pray nothing happens, I love my truck) an EV is pretty high on my short list. That or a sketchy FB marketplace beater lol

Does the EV tax credit kick in before or after child tax credits? I know the EV credit isn’t refundable and the child tax credits are partially refundable… I have found myself into the unique position of where the child tax credits basically cover my entire federal tax burden.

Above my pay grade... My basic understanding is the credit reduces your tax liability is reduced up to the value of the tax credit but not less than zero. Of course there are other conditions, such as earnings limit.

A tax accountant, Turbo Tax and the like should be able to answer your questions.
Good luck.

 

[Rmay635703]

You stated that these batteries can't catch fire:


When there has been evidence to the contrary.
The Tesla Megapack 2 is LFP:
View attachment 193108

And the Megapack 2 has caught fire:
Tesla Megapack Catches Fire In Australia, Continues To Burn Under Supervision (insideevs.com)


Yes, LFP batteries do not catch fire as easily, and require higher temperatures in order to do so, so they are safer, but they still can, and do, catch fire. As I've pointed out in previous threads on this unusually controversial subject, grid scale facility fires appear to be much more common than with EV's.

It was lit on fire by the transfer station/AC power electronics adjacent to the battery.

Most EVs don’t have a flammable transformer inside so yeah less likely to fire off.

Grid sized batteries seem to be a form of very intelligently
stupid engineering

 

[OVERKILL]

It was lit on fire by the transfer station/AC power electronics adjacent to the battery.

Yes, it caught fire.

Most EVs don’t have a flammable transformer inside so yeah less likely to fire off.

Precisely my point.

Grid sized batteries seem to be a form of very intelligently
stupid engineering

Yes, the track record with grid storage system fires is, quite frankly, appalling.

 

[E365]

The original article was largely wrong. Here’s the official list, posted today on the EPA website.

 

[proveitwithdata]

Gm lost quite a few. Tesla model 3 perf, qualifies