One car I'll never buy: Honda Pilot
- Thread starter Alex_V
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My in laws have 2009. We spend a lot of time in las Vegas visiting them, and I get to drive it a lot, especially when we go to visit some of my wife's cousins in LA or San Diego.
Good things: It has a lot of space. It is truly practical for long drives and if you have kid. That is it. That is where good things stop.
Engine is: meh, could be better.
MPG: holy moly, I drove V8's with better MPG when I worked as coach during my graduate studies, renting all those Suburbans, Expeditions etc.
It handles like POS, plastic inside reminds me of best years of Russian Lada.
But to address mechanical issues. First, brakes are horrid. They are undersized for that size, and so far in 65K car went thru three set of rotors due to vibration issues. Front differential had to be replaced. I would just say that was a bad luck. Transmission service interval of 30K tells me that Honda knows there is some issue with transmission, and that is how they trying to solve it. VCM is so obvious. There are issues with oil life (not sure is it VCM related, did not get into details), since Honda dealership always put on sticker with exclamation: Change oil at 20% OLM.
I am not sure what is going on with Honda, since they have issues with new Pilot too.
Good things: It has a lot of space. It is truly practical for long drives and if you have kid. That is it. That is where good things stop.
Engine is: meh, could be better.
MPG: holy moly, I drove V8's with better MPG when I worked as coach during my graduate studies, renting all those Suburbans, Expeditions etc.
It handles like POS, plastic inside reminds me of best years of Russian Lada.
But to address mechanical issues. First, brakes are horrid. They are undersized for that size, and so far in 65K car went thru three set of rotors due to vibration issues. Front differential had to be replaced. I would just say that was a bad luck. Transmission service interval of 30K tells me that Honda knows there is some issue with transmission, and that is how they trying to solve it. VCM is so obvious. There are issues with oil life (not sure is it VCM related, did not get into details), since Honda dealership always put on sticker with exclamation: Change oil at 20% OLM.
I am not sure what is going on with Honda, since they have issues with new Pilot too.
As I put it to my wife the other night, "It's a really nice car - emphasis on use of the word car."
4WD
$50 site donor 2024
Some are under no illusions that CUV's are cars with SUV features - when GM decided to cut production on Tahoe etc to merely jack the price up we decided to go CUV. GM had nothing of interest...
Correct, comparing this to a body on frame SUV isn't apples to apples. And we didn't discuss the handling disadvantages of those vehicles v. a CUV. It's OK to prefer one over the other but the Pilot has always been a respected vehicle in its segment with the press and particularly consumers; that segment doesn't include Tahoe or Suburban.
Originally Posted By: Alex_V
Firstly, MPG rating of 17/23 for the 2WD model, 22 HWY for the 4x4 - so many bigger vehicles with more gonads that get as good or better mileage. If I'm going to drive something that gets that mileage it needs to be a sports car (fast and fun) or a truck-based vehicle!
I get 23-24 MPG [highway] on my 5.3 V8 and 16 MPG in constant bumper to bumper traffic. That is with a/c constantly on and on regular fuel.
Firstly, MPG rating of 17/23 for the 2WD model, 22 HWY for the 4x4 - so many bigger vehicles with more gonads that get as good or better mileage. If I'm going to drive something that gets that mileage it needs to be a sports car (fast and fun) or a truck-based vehicle!
I get 23-24 MPG [highway] on my 5.3 V8 and 16 MPG in constant bumper to bumper traffic. That is with a/c constantly on and on regular fuel.
Originally Posted By: edyvw
I am not sure what is going on with Honda, since they have issues with new Pilot too.
It's simple. They are riding out their reliability reputation as long as possible while their vehicle quality continues on a steady decline. My family has owned Honda vehicles since the late 1980s, and they think my mom's 2011 Fit might be the last. The same thing is happening with Toyota.
The sad part is due to the complexity of today's vehicles, the simplicity of the Japanese cars still makes them look pretty reliable, even though they are cheaper made now than ever before.
I am not sure what is going on with Honda, since they have issues with new Pilot too.
It's simple. They are riding out their reliability reputation as long as possible while their vehicle quality continues on a steady decline. My family has owned Honda vehicles since the late 1980s, and they think my mom's 2011 Fit might be the last. The same thing is happening with Toyota.
The sad part is due to the complexity of today's vehicles, the simplicity of the Japanese cars still makes them look pretty reliable, even though they are cheaper made now than ever before.
Originally Posted By: jeepman3071
Originally Posted By: edyvw
I am not sure what is going on with Honda, since they have issues with new Pilot too.
It's simple. They are riding out their reliability reputation as long as possible while their vehicle quality continues on a steady decline. My family has owned Honda vehicles since the late 1980s, and they think my mom's 2011 Fit might be the last. The same thing is happening with Toyota.
The sad part is due to the complexity of today's vehicles, the simplicity of the Japanese cars still makes them look pretty reliable, even though they are cheaper made now than ever before.
I think of all Japanese manufacturers, Mazda is the only one that is doing good job and doing something different.
Originally Posted By: edyvw
I am not sure what is going on with Honda, since they have issues with new Pilot too.
It's simple. They are riding out their reliability reputation as long as possible while their vehicle quality continues on a steady decline. My family has owned Honda vehicles since the late 1980s, and they think my mom's 2011 Fit might be the last. The same thing is happening with Toyota.
The sad part is due to the complexity of today's vehicles, the simplicity of the Japanese cars still makes them look pretty reliable, even though they are cheaper made now than ever before.
I think of all Japanese manufacturers, Mazda is the only one that is doing good job and doing something different.
Originally Posted By: jeepman3071
Originally Posted By: edyvw
I am not sure what is going on with Honda, since they have issues with new Pilot too.
It's simple. They are riding out their reliability reputation as long as possible while their vehicle quality continues on a steady decline. My family has owned Honda vehicles since the late 1980s, and they think my mom's 2011 Fit might be the last. The same thing is happening with Toyota.
The sad part is due to the complexity of today's vehicles, the simplicity of the Japanese cars still makes them look pretty reliable, even though they are cheaper made now than ever before.
I would not lump Toyota with Honda. Honda went from an easy "second place" to being a mid-tier maker behind Hyundai (of all makers). Honda made a conscious choice in the late 00s to cut costs and de-content the engineering robustness. They pulled a Mercedes when.... like when a 1980s Mercedes were a Mercedes now they are a Mercedes. Honda went from an easy choice to more of a gamble and it was not because they were resting on their reputation, rather they made an "business" decision to cut cost... but they cut deep.
Toyota went from being the best by a country mile to being the best buy a couple of of yards (although it sounds like they are having issues with the Tacoma and that ain't good). If you are looking at reliability, Toyota is still the best, just not leagues ahead as they were in the late 90s and 00s. That being said, with the exception of Honda, everyone else is stronger than what they were in the 90s. Subaru is a lot better, Mazda is lot better. Hyundai and Kia are a lot better. Nissan got better and then lost it all and might be in a place worse than Honda. Even the Big 3 got better. However, they are still not as good as Toyota.
Originally Posted By: edyvw
I am not sure what is going on with Honda, since they have issues with new Pilot too.
It's simple. They are riding out their reliability reputation as long as possible while their vehicle quality continues on a steady decline. My family has owned Honda vehicles since the late 1980s, and they think my mom's 2011 Fit might be the last. The same thing is happening with Toyota.
The sad part is due to the complexity of today's vehicles, the simplicity of the Japanese cars still makes them look pretty reliable, even though they are cheaper made now than ever before.
I would not lump Toyota with Honda. Honda went from an easy "second place" to being a mid-tier maker behind Hyundai (of all makers). Honda made a conscious choice in the late 00s to cut costs and de-content the engineering robustness. They pulled a Mercedes when.... like when a 1980s Mercedes were a Mercedes now they are a Mercedes. Honda went from an easy choice to more of a gamble and it was not because they were resting on their reputation, rather they made an "business" decision to cut cost... but they cut deep.
Toyota went from being the best by a country mile to being the best buy a couple of of yards (although it sounds like they are having issues with the Tacoma and that ain't good). If you are looking at reliability, Toyota is still the best, just not leagues ahead as they were in the late 90s and 00s. That being said, with the exception of Honda, everyone else is stronger than what they were in the 90s. Subaru is a lot better, Mazda is lot better. Hyundai and Kia are a lot better. Nissan got better and then lost it all and might be in a place worse than Honda. Even the Big 3 got better. However, they are still not as good as Toyota.
Originally Posted By: FutureDoc
Originally Posted By: jeepman3071
Originally Posted By: edyvw
I am not sure what is going on with Honda, since they have issues with new Pilot too.
It's simple. They are riding out their reliability reputation as long as possible while their vehicle quality continues on a steady decline. My family has owned Honda vehicles since the late 1980s, and they think my mom's 2011 Fit might be the last. The same thing is happening with Toyota.
The sad part is due to the complexity of today's vehicles, the simplicity of the Japanese cars still makes them look pretty reliable, even though they are cheaper made now than ever before.
I would not lump Toyota with Honda. Honda went from an easy "second place" to being a mid-tier maker behind Hyundai (of all makers). Honda made a conscious choice in the late 00s to cut costs and de-content the engineering robustness. They pulled a Mercedes when.... like when a 1980s Mercedes were a Mercedes now they are a Mercedes. Honda went from an easy choice to more of a gamble and it was not because they were resting on their reputation, rather they made an "business" decision to cut cost... but they cut deep.
Toyota went from being the best by a country mile to being the best buy a couple of of yards (although it sounds like they are having issues with the Tacoma and that ain't good). If you are looking at reliability, Toyota is still the best, just not leagues ahead as they were in the late 90s and 00s. That being said, with the exception of Honda, everyone else is stronger than what they were in the 90s. Subaru is a lot better, Mazda is lot better. Hyundai and Kia are a lot better. Nissan got better and then lost it all and might be in a place worse than Honda. Even the Big 3 got better. However, they are still not as good as Toyota.
In my opinion Toyota service has gone downhill a lot, and that is the part where they rest on their reputation. Their cars are still decent, but if you have an issue forget about it. My GF had a 2010 Prius for a few years. It had some very strange problems with the ABS and transmission. The ABS would activate at seemingly random times, and it became very dangerous to drive during wet or slippery conditions. We went to a number of Toyota dealerships, one even verified the problem, but basically told us it wasn't worth their time and to take it up with Toyota Corporate. They said the issue was electronic, and related to the electronic throttle and braking control systems. Toyota Corporate said there was nothing they can do, and were very arrogant. Basically telling us they sell so many cars they don't really care if there is a bad or dangerous one on the road. And this is coming from someone who has dealt with terrible Chrysler service for years thinking it was normal. The car also consumed 1 quart of oil in 1000 miles and they told us it was normal.
Her father has a meticulously dealer maintained Tundra that has rod knock, and it is just out of warranty. Toyota is a far cry from what they used to be.
Originally Posted By: jeepman3071
Originally Posted By: edyvw
I am not sure what is going on with Honda, since they have issues with new Pilot too.
It's simple. They are riding out their reliability reputation as long as possible while their vehicle quality continues on a steady decline. My family has owned Honda vehicles since the late 1980s, and they think my mom's 2011 Fit might be the last. The same thing is happening with Toyota.
The sad part is due to the complexity of today's vehicles, the simplicity of the Japanese cars still makes them look pretty reliable, even though they are cheaper made now than ever before.
I would not lump Toyota with Honda. Honda went from an easy "second place" to being a mid-tier maker behind Hyundai (of all makers). Honda made a conscious choice in the late 00s to cut costs and de-content the engineering robustness. They pulled a Mercedes when.... like when a 1980s Mercedes were a Mercedes now they are a Mercedes. Honda went from an easy choice to more of a gamble and it was not because they were resting on their reputation, rather they made an "business" decision to cut cost... but they cut deep.
Toyota went from being the best by a country mile to being the best buy a couple of of yards (although it sounds like they are having issues with the Tacoma and that ain't good). If you are looking at reliability, Toyota is still the best, just not leagues ahead as they were in the late 90s and 00s. That being said, with the exception of Honda, everyone else is stronger than what they were in the 90s. Subaru is a lot better, Mazda is lot better. Hyundai and Kia are a lot better. Nissan got better and then lost it all and might be in a place worse than Honda. Even the Big 3 got better. However, they are still not as good as Toyota.
In my opinion Toyota service has gone downhill a lot, and that is the part where they rest on their reputation. Their cars are still decent, but if you have an issue forget about it. My GF had a 2010 Prius for a few years. It had some very strange problems with the ABS and transmission. The ABS would activate at seemingly random times, and it became very dangerous to drive during wet or slippery conditions. We went to a number of Toyota dealerships, one even verified the problem, but basically told us it wasn't worth their time and to take it up with Toyota Corporate. They said the issue was electronic, and related to the electronic throttle and braking control systems. Toyota Corporate said there was nothing they can do, and were very arrogant. Basically telling us they sell so many cars they don't really care if there is a bad or dangerous one on the road. And this is coming from someone who has dealt with terrible Chrysler service for years thinking it was normal. The car also consumed 1 quart of oil in 1000 miles and they told us it was normal.
Her father has a meticulously dealer maintained Tundra that has rod knock, and it is just out of warranty. Toyota is a far cry from what they used to be.
Interesting viewpoints.
The niche they fill is a spacious 5 seater, with room for 7(or 8) for short trips, with AWD, that can tow a small camper or boat, that the missus can navigate in a parking lot without a lot of trouble.
Sure, a full length Suburban perhaps can get the same mileage, while being able to tow a 30' trailer, but my wife will never ever want to drive that beast around as a DD.
Sure, a full length Suburban perhaps can get the same mileage, while being able to tow a 30' trailer, but my wife will never ever want to drive that beast around as a DD.
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Originally Posted By: Mr Nice
I think this style Pilot looked pretty good.
OK, Ill give you that the 06 variant looks better than the one that replaced, but not as good (IMO) as the current model.
Originally Posted By: czbrian
According to fuelly.com, comparing a siliar generation Pilot to a Surburban gets you 20% better fuelly economy. According to 0-60 times website, the Pilot .2 sec quicker in 0-60. Also the Pilots 3rd row seats fold flat. The suburban and tahoe didnt get that until this newest generation.
I think the Tahoe is ridiculous too... The cargo space with a third row up is worse than some of the three row car SUVs...
Suburban is where its at, if you need people and cargo. Frankly, I couldnt care less about folding the third row in a suburban, given all the space behind it.
That's my biggest gripe with these three row car-based SUVs. With the third row up, the cargo space is virtually useless. If you need an SUV vs a minivan due to towing or to prove manliness, then get a suburban.
The weakness in comparing Suburban vs 3 row typical SUVs is about $20k difference in price. Suburban has no competition so it's priced accordingly vs the highly competitive midsize 3 row SUV area.
Originally Posted By: Mr Nice
I think this style Pilot looked pretty good.
OK, Ill give you that the 06 variant looks better than the one that replaced, but not as good (IMO) as the current model.
Originally Posted By: czbrian
According to fuelly.com, comparing a siliar generation Pilot to a Surburban gets you 20% better fuelly economy. According to 0-60 times website, the Pilot .2 sec quicker in 0-60. Also the Pilots 3rd row seats fold flat. The suburban and tahoe didnt get that until this newest generation.
I think the Tahoe is ridiculous too... The cargo space with a third row up is worse than some of the three row car SUVs...
Suburban is where its at, if you need people and cargo. Frankly, I couldnt care less about folding the third row in a suburban, given all the space behind it.
That's my biggest gripe with these three row car-based SUVs. With the third row up, the cargo space is virtually useless. If you need an SUV vs a minivan due to towing or to prove manliness, then get a suburban.
The weakness in comparing Suburban vs 3 row typical SUVs is about $20k difference in price. Suburban has no competition so it's priced accordingly vs the highly competitive midsize 3 row SUV area.
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