omnious sounding cold drive-off noise

[Brons2]

Lately, I've been getting a clicking/knocking noise when driving off from a cold start, at about 1500 RPM, with the vehicle in my signature. If I let off the gas and pull to the curb for a few seconds, it goes away. It runs perfect when it's warm and sounds the same way it did when it was new.

The first time I had the noise was in December when I was about 5K into an OCI with Peak 5w30 SM and a P1 filter. I changed both the next day with MC 5w20 SS and an OEM filter and the noise went away for about a month and a half.

But lately it's been coming back, and more frequently. Probably 3 or 4 times in the last two weeks, including both cold mornings near freezing and a very warm morning (for winter) we had when it was around 60 degrees. I am only about 1500 miles into my latest OCI, and I am loath to change the oil again to try to attempt a fix. Not sure that was really the fix anyway.

It seems like the longer I sit after a cold start, the less likely the noise is to happen. Especially after a start that was normal and without much if any noise. Plus I have been programmed for a while to drive off quickly but gently after a cold start to minimize fuel dilution. Maybe I just need to let it run for 15-30 seconds before driving off.

What could this be?
-a rod knock?
-oil not yet circulated to the top of the engine?
-cam phaser oil passages plugged?
-timing chain noise?
-something else?

I looked under the valve covers last summer and the valvetrain looked like new. The car currently has 64,xxx miles on it. Any thoughts?

 

[Rand]

What oil filter is on the vehicle. There was a tsb about bad noise with non-oem filter.

What kind of valves does that engine have? is it possible they need adjusted?

 

[Brons2]

It has an OEM filter installed.

The valves can only be adjusted by shimming, as I understand it. I doubt that it's valve adjustment, because it's nice and quiet when it's warmed up.

 

[mechanicx]

Could just be piston slap or knock. It is usually pretty harmless.

 

[LeakySeals]

The vehicle is the one in your sig?

 

[sleddriver]

If we've had a freeze the night before, I let my engine warm up several minutes before moving. All oil is too thick at start-up, especially after a freeze. And most engine wear occurs between start-up and warm-up, at least from what I've read.
Quote:
It seems like the longer I sit after a cold start, the less likely the noise is to happen. Especially after a start that was normal and without much if any noise. Plus I have been programmed for a while to drive off quickly but gently after a cold start to minimize fuel dilution. Maybe I just need to let it run for 15-30 seconds before driving off.
There's your clue. Try longer.

Finally, to determine if it IS your engine making the noise. Remove the serp. belt before a cold start and spin all the pulleys, in both directions. Try rocking them back & forth. Then start her up and listen. You can drive it like this, for a short distance, but you won't have any PS and the alt light will come on.

 

[Brons2]

never even thought about an accessory making the noise, but that does make sense.

leaky seals: yes, the vehicle in my sig.

 

[mechtech2]

Also a cam belt system -pulleys idlers, tensioners [if anyone has one]

 

[LeakySeals]

I have had random problems with the restrictiveness of P1's in the past but towards the end of a dirty OC. If it was a Toyota I'd say dirty or worn cam gear/phaser. Both the Camry and the Corolla in my sig had stubborn startup ticking for as long as 5 mins, dieseling, and overall roughness from clogged vvt's. This may be a similar setup to Kia. I resolved using Mobil 1 high mileage 5w30 on both of them. within 3k poof, gone. Worth a try

 

[tpattgeek]

If it's just a loud tick, I'd vote piston slap. You can't blame the P1 filter when it's happening with the OEM filter as well. All of that P1 mumbo-jumbo was all rubbish anyway. Does it seem to follow the rpm of the engine or could it have it's own rhythm as if it's an accessory?

 

[91344George]

Originally Posted By: sleddriver
If we've had a freeze the night before, I let my engine warm up several minutes before moving. All oil is too thick at start-up, especially after a freeze. And most engine wear occurs between start-up and warm-up, at least from what I've read.



WRONG!

At least in modern engines for the past few decades and with todays superior oils you SHOULD NOT let a car run at idle for several minutes when stone cold (unless you happen to live in the artic where it is 30 below zero)....if anything that creates MORE wear since the higher oil pressure that is created when driving gets the oil circulating faster and provides better protection.

Anywhere from 0 F and above all you need is to start the car and after 15 seconds or so drive off gently for the first few minutes. When temps are about 25 F and above I start my vehicle and within a few seconds drive off.

 

[Brons2]

I've started idiling it longer now before driving off and the noise has not recurred. Now I start it as soon as my rear hits the seat and then I shut the door, put on my seat belt, check for visibility out of all the windows, and then go.

Someone mentioned the cam phaser in their Toyota, I was thinking that on this car as well, because the noise started about 1500 rpm as I drove off. Maybe that's when the phaser first starts it's engagement.

But at any rate...I just give it a little more time now.

 

[sleddriver]

Originally Posted By: 91344George
Originally Posted By: sleddriver
If we've had a freeze the night before, I let my engine warm up several minutes before moving. All oil is too thick at start-up, especially after a freeze. And most engine wear occurs between start-up and warm-up, at least from what I've read.



WRONG!

At least in modern engines for the past few decades and with todays superior oils you SHOULD NOT let a car run at idle for several minutes when stone cold (unless you happen to live in the artic where it is 30 below zero)....if anything that creates MORE wear since the higher oil pressure that is created when driving gets the oil circulating faster and provides better protection.

Anywhere from 0 F and above all you need is to start the car and after 15 seconds or so drive off gently for the first few minutes. When temps are about 25 F and above I start my vehicle and within a few seconds drive off.


Which part?

15 secs???? Takes me longer than that to organize the briefcase, fasten the seat belt, turn on the radio, put on my glasses, etc. On a cold morning, the closed-loop idle is 1000rpm. I'm usually off within a couple of minutes. YMMV.

Yes, ALL oil is too thick at start-up.

 

[91344George]

Originally Posted By: sleddriver


Yes, ALL oil is too thick at start-up.


No, unless the temps are extremely cold, most of todays modern oils 10w-30 and below are completely sufficient for typical cold starts in the Regular 49 states. AK might be an exception as would parts of Canada. But there you can use 0w-30.

Don't forget that even if the engine is being cold started there is still oil clinging to the engine components from the previous usage so it is not like the parts are "dry" started.

Nothing to worry about unless you are one of the exceptions which are pretty rare today.

 

[sleddriver]

Read Haas' article Motor Oil 101 on BITOG.