OLMs - How effective?

[globey]

Ok, here's the skinny. I have a part-time job at an auto parts store that you all have probably been to. At any rate, a customer came up to the counter with five quarts of M1 and a M1 filter. Now, me being the helpful salesperson that I am, I asked him if he heard about our current synthetic oil change special that ran about a third of the price of the oil and filter that he was currently about to purchase. He tells me that he always used Mobil 1 and switching motor oils is how engines get sludge.

Something in my head told me to shut up at this point, but my mouth didn't cooperate. I asked him if he ever thought about getting a UOA (I got the impression that he was going the extended route because the shiny bottle says exactly how many miles he can go) but he gave me a funny look and said that "my car tells me when to change the oil".

Immediately, I went about my business and took his money. I realized I was trying to help one of the stubborn people who don't want to see outside the box. With that said, I'm pretty ignorant on the subject of OLM outside of knowing that they exist and their basic purpose.

My question is, how do these work and what are they making their basis on? I'm fairly certain it's not on the amount of miles driven. Thanks!

 

[dave1251]

OLM's have shown to be a good indicatior for an OCI.
I will not take credit for this link another member on an another thread posted this.

http://theoildrop.server101.com/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=129755&an=0&page=317

 

[globey]

Quote:

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OLM's have shown to be a good indicatior for an OCI.
I will not take credit for this link another member on an another thread posted this.

http://theoildrop.server101.com/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=129755&an=0&page=317

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Dave, thanks for that. Reading all that, i have a better understanding but it leaves me with a question. Not all oils have the same levels of ZDDP. I'm pretty sure the OLM doesn't analyze the oil to determine the level of ZDDP in the oil, so does it go off of an OEM fill and what the current specs are on that oil? I read the factors that are in the equation in the depletion of ZDDP, but I don't believe I saw anything that mentioned how the level of ZDDP is measured to start with. Am I missing something?

 

[dave1251]

I hope this can help you.
BTW....something I forgot to mention. The oil life monitor was developed, validated and works fine with conventional oil...yes, non-sythetic, conventional, off the shelf SG4 gasoline engine oil.

I have seen the results and they are fine. Anyone that indicates that the oil life monitor is not designed for conventional oil is wrong. Synthetic oil is NOT required if you plan on following the oil life monitor.....which you should. Quoted from ____.

 

[spOILEDrotten]

Dave, many Oil Life Monitors do require you to use synthetic. Don't make blanket statements like that.

High line vehicles like BMW, Porsche, and even Corvettes require synthetic and have an OLM.

 

[The Critic]

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Dave, many Oil Life Monitors do require you to use synthetic. Don't make blanket statements like that.

High line vehicles like BMW, Porsche, and even Corvettes require synthetic and have an OLM.

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Well, correct and incorrect at the same time. Certain OLMs are calibrated for synthetic oils, while others are not. However, Porsche goes by a fixed two-year, 20,000 mile service interval on many of their models and does not have an actual OLM...only a message that appears in the onboard display when it's time for a service.

GM's system, with the exception of a few V8s and V6s and the SS models, are calibrated for the latest API rated mineral oil. Honda's system is calibrated for mineral oil as well.

 

[dave1251]

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Dave, many Oil Life Monitors do require you to use synthetic. Don't make blanket statements like that.

High line vehicles like BMW, Porsche, and even Corvettes require synthetic and have an OLM.

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What? Did you not catch that I was copying from the orginal poster the GM engineer in question.

 

[spOILEDrotten]

It wasn't obvious from your post. If you use the quote option...

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You'll have something that looks like this

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[dave1251]

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It wasn't obvious from your post. If you use the quote option...

Quote:

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You'll have something that looks like this

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I can not import from another thread. Or if I can tell me.

 

[dave1251]

____
Group II Member


Reged: 04/18/05
Posts: 79
Loc: Detroit, Michigan Re: ZDP depletion and GM oil life monitor
#129758 - 04/18/05 03:26 PM Edit Reply Quote Quick Reply



BTW....something I forgot to mention. The oil life monitor was developed, validated and works fine with conventional oil...yes, non-sythetic, conventional, off the shelf SG4 gasoline engine oil.

I have seen the results and they are fine. Anyone that indicates that the oil life monitor is not designed for conventional oil is wrong. Synthetic oil is NOT required if you plan on following the oil life monitor.....which you should.

How about that?

 

[Thatwouldbegreat]

OLM systems have various patents and methods used to look at vehicle use and oil life.

For the most part they work as long as you use manufacturer specified oil viscosity and rating, with any factory specified approvals required for that vehicle and engine.

[ for example: BMW LL-01 or LL-04, Mercedes Benz 229.3 etc. ]

Now there is still some debate among enthusiasts as to whether the OLM allows too long an oil change interval.

A modern BMW using a BMW approved oil should be fine even if the OLM says not to change until 15,000 miles.

If the BMW was a leased vehicle the owner probably won't change any sooner and some BMW Service Managers might be adamant that one should never change before then.

Did the Service Manager drink the kool aid? Is BMW correct.... or trying to save money on free service and appear technologically advanced?


If I owned a brand new BMW, I'd use a top BMW approved oil and changed every 7500 miles...even though that might be 50% on the OLM.

I have a Chevy Duramax that holds almost 3 gallons of 15w40 HDEO [ like Rotella ] and the OLM would probably not read 0% oil life remaining until 10,000 miles or more.

I use Delvac 1 5W-40 synthetic and around 30% remaining on the OLM [or 7500 miles ] I start thinking ' is it worth it for me to leave the oil in for the last 30% ? '.

Since the engine is expensive and sometimes sees moderate use I change earlier.

Am I wasting money? Or caring for the engine?

You'll find people who believe one way or the other.

I think OLM's are going to be part of car ownership, so you might as well learn more about them in order to answer customer questions.

At the moment you'll find anectdotal evidence that people have used OLM's out to 0% oil lifw and had great results with conventional oil or synthetic.

You may also find that Mercedes and Saab had engine problems when the dealerships didn't use the correct oil for bulk oil, and the engines probably required an oil spec than only a synthetic oil might have met.

You'll also find BMW enthsusiasts, especially shops that deal with used engines for transplants pondering whether recent BMW engines will run for super high mileage after having 100,000 miles of OLM determined oil changes.

Since even top manufacturers get bad parts, or have problems with some designs, and cars always seem to be looking for ways to have problems...I like to use better oil and filters and change sooner than required.

 

[JTK]

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.. I'm pretty sure the OLM doesn't analyze the oil to determine the level of ZDDP in the oil, so does it go off of an OEM fill and what the current specs are on that oil?..

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Like the other fellas said, OEM's spec the OLM's to work with a certain spec'd motor oil. The last two GM products I've owned with OLM's (2005 Trailblazer, 2007 Cobalt) spec that a 5w30 with the GM 6094M spec be used. Not all 5w30's carry that spec. Surely other oils will work without issue, it's just that these particular OLM's were 'calibrated' on 6094M oil.

Joel

 

[Pablo]

This OLM:10K UOA
had 6% left on it. I would have loved to see it on conventional oil.

 

[unDummy]

And some OLM's or extended OCI's shouldn't be trusted.

http://theoildrop.server101.com/forums/s...amp;Main=818519
http://theoildrop.server101.com/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=UBB3&Number=746457
http://theoildrop.server101.com/forums/s...amp;Main=903019

The problem with OLM are issues with a vehicles with oil consumption. We're just too busy to change oil, and now we're too busy to check the oil level. I expect more people to run low on oil because its just too easy not to bother with any maintenance.

 

[rpn453]

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Like the other fellas said, OEM's spec the OLM's to work with a certain spec'd motor oil. The last two GM products I've owned with OLM's (2005 Trailblazer, 2007 Cobalt) spec that a 5w30 with the GM 6094M spec be used. Not all 5w30's carry that spec. Surely other oils will work without issue, it's just that these particular OLM's were 'calibrated' on 6094M oil.

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Technically, they were calibrated with SL/GF-3 or SM/GF-4 oil. The 6094M spec is for low temperature pumpability only.

I'd run any SM/GF-4 oil to the OLM limit on a GM or Honda; I haven't seen any bad UOA's from those. But those German cars may be stretching it a bit.

 

[Lonnie]

The OLM's amount to a culture change for gearheads. No matter what the method used comes up with I'll bet that there are some owners that keep cars and wonder if the OLM is biased toward keeping expenses down for the first owner that does not keep cars. That question might come up for the buyer that buys an off lease BMW that is two or three years old. I think there is too much focus on the engine wear issue when there is still the rest of the car to take care of. Then there is the issue of getting into one of these expensive engines for a repair. Makes an oil change look cheap.

 

[wgtoys]

Obviously not all of the systems are the same! I'm currently using the OLM on my Acura and get a bit of safety margin by using a synthetic oil instead of the recommended conventional oil. The indicator starts asking for the oil to be changed at a theoretical "15% left" reading. The last time I did so the OCI worked out to a bit over 6k miles of mixed short trip and long trip driving.

The posted stuff about high end euro vehicles with their extremely long OCIs is more suspect IMO.

 

[LouDawg]

Lonnie beat me to the punch.

I was also going to point out what your intentions are with the car and where you are on the ownership time line. If you bought it new and plan to get rid of it by 100k or so, then stick with the recommended oil at the OLM recommendation and forget about it.

If you're like me and plan to see just how many miles you can get out of the engine, then I'm with wgtoys (notwithstanding the other things that will fail as Lonnie pointed out). I run my Honda OLM down to around 20-30%, which works out to about 6-7K miles and use full synthetic (PP 5W-20). That's my "safety margin", as it were.