Ok to switch from M1? Causing bad leaks !!

[toocrazy2yoo]

Wish we had a poll feature here. I've stopped running M1 owing to pricing, and because now I know there are alternatives, but since high school (75), I've been running Mobil1, 3K oci (I know, I know, but back then til this forum, I didn't know). I've run vehicles hard on the interstate, in the heat, the cold, but all of them into 150-200K territory and have replaced, in maybe 6 or 8 cars, 1 set of valve cover gaskets, THAT set was leaking a drop a month, just barely seeping through one corner, not even leaking.

I'm NOT blaming HD for habits detrimental to the vehicle, but this leaking-thang has GOT to be model/manufacturer specific. Pop drove a lot of GM products & they always had something coming off the main seal. I used to clean the spots off the garage. But my 66 Charger, an LTD Ford, a MustangII, a Duster with Slant 6 I drove 100K in the service, my Pop's old 72 FuryIII, on through to a Toyota pickup, to three Hyundais, I've just never had leaks with M1. Never. One vehicle, the Slant 6, was showing darker in one corner of the dust at one corner of the valve cover. The GMs, I get that they leak, no surprise. Further, lawn/generator equipment aren't the place for M1, always ran Dino in mine with a shot of STP and now lately (since BITOG) been throwing a shot of VSOT or SLOB in with the SM-Dino. Never a leak in a Briggs or Kohler or Tecumseh engine. I think the instruction/legend has always been M1 wasn't a good idea for lawn equipment. I have however, run it HARD on air-cooled Honda motorcycles (NightHawk S) without leakage for twenty years and lots of trips to redline on track days and riding up in the hills and out on the interstates on hot summer days. Never replaced valve gaskets or mains. Lucky? I dunno. Just never had leaks. But none of my vehicles have been GM.

Would be interesting to see what the common denominator is with "leaky" Mobil1, other than the oil itself. Makes no sense, but I sympathize with HD. Those leaks suck to get off the concrete...

 

[Mighty HD]

Both vehicles get driven like grandma is driving.

One thing I did find odd. When we drove to Ga (500 mi each way): The way up there it leaked very, very bad. To the point when we stopped it was dripping on the ground. Once we got to the inlaws I cleaned it off. The truck sat for two days, then the normal driving around up there. On the way back I topped the oil off and it didn't leak a drop the entire way back and for three weeks after that. Then it started leaking again ...now its getting fixed again.

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Mighty HD,

You are the common denominator in all of these leaks. Maybe Mobil 1 was having issues (I never heard any complaints other than oil consumption)… I think it’s your driving habits. Do you drive in high revs, and over 80+ MPH Aggressively?

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[Mighty HD]

Maybe since I have an older blend of M1 that could be the problem?

Once the truck gets back I'll run M1 and see what happens. I may just go to PP or something along those lines, OR just run Castrol GTX 5w30.

 

[WishIhadatruck]

I have a 1994 Pontiac Grand Prix with the 3100 v6 and have run Mobil 1 5w30 from 96,000 miles until now at 197,000 miles. It has never leaked enough to drip on the ground. It is just now seeping enough from somewhere to get down where I can see oil on the outside of the oil pan but not enough to drip off. It is possible you are just incredibly unlucky but I don't think it is the Mobil 1. I also have run Mobil 1 in my 2001 Grand Prix with the 3800 v6 from 6,000 miles until now with 65,000 miles with no sign of leaks at all.

 

[ziggy]

I have had my share of oil leaks using mobile 1 5w 30. Its a 1995 plymouh neon. I was using it for about 2 years,a dn had about 65,000 miles on it. By 67 to 70,000 miles i had to replace rear main and valvecover gasket. One day, after all seals were replaced, their was a BIG puddle of fresh oil under my car like a week after oil change. Hard to tell where it was coming from, but looked to be near the rear main seal. I went back to dino oil, and ever since, th leak has stopped. It only leaks now, becuase i am using auto rx, which is expected, but its ust some drip-drip stuff.
Why your car is leaking oil(synthetic oil) mighty HD, is because synthetics clean SO good, they get rid of all the crud that blocks up the seals. When using dino oil, it is dirty when in use. Carbon deposits form, and thats what actually helps seal the seals. Synthetics, clean all that stuff out, exposing the holes and creveses that dino was helping plug up. Synthetics are far superior, yes to regular oil, but theirs a reason thier not always recommended in hihger or high mileage engines.... becasue of both our situations. TThey clean all the crud out so well, form inbetween the seals, the oil comes out.
I kinda knew a guy, who was using M1 5w30 in his neon, and had gone offroad. Ripped his oil filter off! He didn know until he got home like 15 minutes later. 75% of the oil was gone form his cranckase, and yet, his enigne still kept going! So, to me, that is actualy proof, True snthetics do protect

 

[SteveD2]

Mighty HD,
Are you using oil additives?
What is the oil consumption rate?

 

[Quest]

Doode!

Check your PCV system for excessive pressure buildup!

Could be a clogged PCV valve!

 

[SubLGT]

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....I got a new craftsman 6.75 briggs & stratton lawnmower about 3 months ago. Ran it 4 times and then changed to M1. Ran two more times and it's got an oil leak coming out of the bottom shaft where the blade bolts to. Had it fixed under warranty, put dino in and haven't had a problem since. ........

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This summer I used synthetic for the first time in my 15 year old Honda mower. I had no leaks with the M1 0W-40.

 

[KBFXDLI]

Ok......two GM engines, 2 mowers, one generator....wait a minute....who would keep putting M1 in anything after the complete seal job on the first auto & mower? I'm calling ________ here.......sorry but this is statistically impossible that 1 guy would get that much leaky stuff.

 

[JavaMan]

"maybe this is why, M1 switched from PAO to group 3, to avoid all this M1 syn causes leaks and high iron wear stuff."

Hmmmmmmmm.

 

[Dark Jedi]

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I'm not hucking rocks or anything -

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there goes Pablo and his ROCKS

but seriously it is hard to believe that you had leaks in all those engines. I am not calling you a liar so dont think I am. but I was thinking the same of the 2 sections of metal that the seal is between. might have something out of spec.

what did the guy say might of caused the oil leak in your mower and generator? or did he just fix it. I would just switch to another oil. I am running GC 0w30 syntec in my 6.5 B&S engine for 2 years now. never had a leak yet.

the rear main seal is leaking on my wifes 3.1 malibu. but it never uses any oil. so maybe its just weeping. car has 60K miles on it. think most of these engines are just leaky engines.

hope you find a cure to your problem.

 

[Mighty HD]

I do not put additives in the oil.

Consumption rates are normal. The GMC uses maybe 1/2 quart btween changes, the Pontiac is about the same.
KBFX:
Again, call ________ if you want sweetheart. You weren't here, you didn't see it. Did you clean the spots up in the carport or was just the magic oil bunny? There's no sense in being a keyboard cowboy and making assumptions when you haven't seen it with your eyes.

When the mower went to sears there was no mention of the oil used. Just a comment of how clean it was on the repair ticket. When the genset got back from the Lowes repair all they said was a faulty gasket. I've ran GTX in the genset with no further problems. Since the mower is under warranty until 2010 I may drain the dino and run M1 again in a different weight & see what happens.

Why do I keep using M1? IF you had close to 25 cases of M1 you'd run nothing but M1 too. Why am I going to run something different when I have enough oil for several years. After selling a lot off and my own oil changes I've got around 5 cases left. I'll use that until its gone and change brands maybe.

 

[va3ux]

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I'm thinking none of this happened.

One or two items maybe... not everything with a motor in it.

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I don't think you're actually thinking at all.

 

[va3ux]

I don't know guys. Over on a Dodge forum, there's more than one car owner that has switched to M1 after a lot of prodding from the members there, that reports back that he now has oil leaks where there were none before. And that's during the first run of the oil. This is always on an engine that has never run synthetic before. And M1 is always their first foray into the world on synthetics because it's so visible to the average consumer. Maybe this would have happened with any synthetic they started with, but M1 always gets mentioned because it gets used so often.

I've read too many of these posts to think that there isn't a link. And at the same time, there's plenty of people with no leaks using synthetic.

 

[427Z06]

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It only leaks now, becuase i am using auto rx, which is expected, but its ust some drip-drip stuff.

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This would indicate to me it's the vehicle, not the oil. I've used AutoRX twice now on fairly well maintained vehicles and it didn't create any leaks.

 

[427Z06]

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Again, call ________ if you want sweetheart. You weren't here, you didn't see it. Did you clean the spots up in the carport or was just the magic oil bunny? There's no sense in being a keyboard cowboy and making assumptions when you haven't seen it with your eyes.

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It's interesting we don't hear about all kinds of leaks in the Corvette Forums where it's installed at the factory, and many continue using it because of that.
It's be interesting to compare the rear main seal part numbers between these engines and yours.

 

[Dark Jedi]

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I don't know guys. Over on a Dodge forum, there's more than one car owner that has switched to M1 after a lot of prodding from the members there, that reports back that he now has oil leaks where there were none before. And that's during the first run of the oil. This is always on an engine that has never run synthetic before. And M1 is always their first foray into the world on synthetics because it's so visible to the average consumer. Maybe this would have happened with any synthetic they started with, but M1 always gets mentioned because it gets used so often.

I've read too many of these posts to think that there isn't a link. And at the same time, there's plenty of people with no leaks using synthetic.

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but theres too many variables with what you posted. how well maintained the engine was. how many miles did the engine have on it. I know its iffy to switch to synthetic with engines hitting 100,000 miles. I goto dodge dakota fourms and people that switch to synthetic oil( mainly M-1) reports no leaks at all. maybe one or two will report back with leaks but the engines had over 100,000 miles on it. so you have a 50/50 chance of it leaking right off the get go with high mileage engines. I ran M-1 in my truck and it was the first time it seen synthetic oil ever. never had a problem.


I know its hard to use something else beings you have that much oil. but is it worth it to continue to to use it if its causing all this damage to your seals. I would bet its cheaper to just switch oil and sell the M-1. might lose a lil money but it might save you alot more time and money in the long run.

 

[JohnBrowning]

No tin foil beenie for me!! MK Ultra does not scare me at all! I have a Craftsman lawn and garden tractor that has been run on M1 0W30 and 0W40 for the last two years and it does not have any leaks or weeping at all.It was run on a variety of dino oils the first 5 years.It does go through belts and belt drive bearings every 2-3 years though. I have also never seen any vechile have seal issues with M1 and I have been useing it since about the 1988. I doubt that the M1 is the issue on your GM product. GM used very poor seal materials for years and the aftermarket did not beef up the meterials for a long long time on most of the applications. GM is notorious for useing cheap gasket and seal materials. Recently GM has started to turn things around a bit and their high content 3.6 is useing teflon main seals. I suspect that you are either getting very cheap seal materials or the block has some machineing issues in term or surface finish or trueness. Seal materials should be virgin silicone for valve cover gskets and nothing less then viton for front and rear main seals. I would recomend contacting Felpro and seeing if they make a Viton or teflon rear main seal and a silicone valve cover seal.I know they have them in Teflon for the 4.3V6. Some parts stores can order them but if you do not ask they usualy sell what they have in stock. I also like HD oil pan gaskets and valve cover gaskets that Felpro makes for some engine. They are not only very supply but they have a steel inserts in them to try to prevent over torgueing of the gasket.

Have you been appling RTV to the required spots when changeing these gaskets out? Most times at least one or two mateing surfaces require RTV to prevent oil from weeping out from around the gasket or bolt holes?

M1 and any other API oil is not the issue. It is either material choice, application of the seal or machineing issue. Some esters can be hard on cheap seal materials but PAO,GIII,GII base stocks when used in a fully formulated motor oil are chemicaly almost identical to GI dino in terms of reactivity with various elastomers and florcarbons.

Is their something in your environment like at work or home that could be damageing your seals????

 

[JohnBrowning]

Mighty HD, Try running a Valvoline Maxlife High Milage dino oil for the next two oil changes!! Lets see if the leak goes away. Then if the leak does go away reintroduce M1 but make sure it is new M1 though and lets see if the leak returns!

 

[Mighty HD]

Ok I got the tuck back and decided to drain the M1 as per the suggestion of the dealer and several others on the board.

I filled with standard Castrol GTX 5w30. I chose this because after many, many hours of searching and reading threads it seems that GTX has good wear numbers on a variety of different engines.

I am going to run it 900 miles (until 20k), drain and then run it the usual 2k that I change my oil at. :FlamesuitON:

I will update if any leaks are evident. If no leaks I will most likely stay with GTX and sell all the M1.
I'm still torn on the M1 causing the leaks. Seems that many folks are split 50/50. I really think the cause is a combo of the very little driving that I do and using M1 which causes the seepage/leaking.


I appreciate all the knowledge and replies that were given.