Oils that contain sodium

Pennzoil motor oil
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mechanicx

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I understand sodium to be a detergent additive used in some oils. I don't think it is needed and the problem with it is it mars where sodium is coming from in a used oil analysis.

I was wondering what all the oils, primarily dinos but also synthetics, are that contain and don't contain significant amounts of sodium. I understand Valvoline conventionals do, and I think Mobil drive clean 5000. I don't think Quaker State conventional or Pennzoil conventional do. So far I got,

sodium:
-Valvoline conventional, Maxlife
-Mobil Clean and Drive clean 5000

non-sodium:
Pennzoil conventional, PP
Quaker State Conventional, QS Q-hp
 
Brad-Penn oils use sodium in the add-pack.

All Castrol oils, EXCEPT SYNTEC, use Sodium in their add-pack.
 
if Na is present with K, then coolant may be present (especially if glycol flags, but Na and K flag way before glycol), if there is just Na, then it seems like an oil add.

I dont think Ive seen much K in oils natively...
 
I don't think sodium is needed because Pennzoil cleans just fine without it. My understanding was that sodium is a cheaper way to go. I'm not sure if all coolants contain much patassium, but a lot of them contain sodium.
 
It doesn't bother me to have Na as a detergent. Other than the initial confusion on OA's I have seen no evedence that it doesn't perform as well as other detergents.

Please explain why you think it is more inexpensive and if it is less expensive what evedence do you have that it has any shortcomings in performance compared to a more expensive product?
 
I'm not interested in proving whether sodium is less expensive or has any performance shortcoming. I never said it did. I don't care for it, but if you like it that's fine with me too. Why is it so many people here think someone has to prove to them for free every casual statement made, or worse some misconception they construed from a casual statement
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?
 
Originally Posted By: mechanicx
I'm not interested in proving whether sodium is less expensive or has any performance shortcoming. I never said it did. I don't care for it, but if you like it that's fine with me too. Why is it so many people here think someone has to prove to them for free every casual statement made, or worse some misconception they construed from a casual statement
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?


This website originally attracted me bedcause facts, science and real data always superceded personal opinion and preference in the pursuit of lubrication knowledge .
I was simply trying to discover why you think that Na based detergent packages are not desireable other than the OA factor. Trying to create a critical discussion to lay out real facts and not opinion is what this BITOG is about. I am surprised you find this approach to be confrontational!
 
Originally Posted By: endeavor to persevere
With out data, you are just another person with an opinion......


Well take my "opinion" or leave it. I couldn't care less.
 
Originally Posted By: Bryanccfshr
Originally Posted By: mechanicx
I'm not interested in proving whether sodium is less expensive or has any performance shortcoming. I never said it did. I don't care for it, but if you like it that's fine with me too. Why is it so many people here think someone has to prove to them for free every casual statement made, or worse some misconception they construed from a casual statement
54.gif
?


This website originally attracted me bedcause facts, science and real data always superceded personal opinion and preference in the pursuit of lubrication knowledge .
I was simply trying to discover why you think that Na based detergent packages are not desireable other than the OA factor. Trying to create a critical discussion to lay out real facts and not opinion is what this BITOG is about. I am surprised you find this approach to be confrontational!


I don't have a problem so much with you asking me if I had facts to back up whether sodium is a less expensive detergent additive than calcium or what have you. Other than that, I think I was pretty clear that I was just stating my preference for oil that doesn't contain significant sodium. It's the way you phrased the question asking for "proof" that sodium is inferior when I never even went there. I just get irriatated because more than once I have passed along info that I know is factual and someone has demanded I provide them "proof" or worse created a strawman argument, a lot of times just because some fact isn't what they wanted to hear or believe. Maybe they should go factually verify their own beliefs and opinions on their own time and money. But instead they demand verified facts that might require someone else's time and money. Anyway, I never questioned sodium's effectiveness only whether it was necessary.
 
If we could, please, let's stay on topic.

I believe that OP was interested in lubes with low or no Na, because he is interested in discovering a possible coolant leak into his engine, and if the oil has some Na in it, it might be masking the possible trace amounts of Na from the coolant.

His statement of Na being un-needed might be somewhat subjective, but his intent (I believe) was to find an oil that might help diagnose a potential problem.

Do I understand the underlying question correctly, Mech?
 
Yes that's it exactly although I'm not actually trying to find a leak in my engine per se. Thanks, dnewton3. I don't really intend to cast aspersion on sodium oil additive, but just asking others if they are inclined to help fill in a sodium and a low or no sodium oil list. As a side issue, if someone thinks sodium additive in oil is not an issue in UOA regarding coolant contamination, or wants to praise sodium I guess that's fair. But I'm not really trying to debate all that with this thread.
 
Originally Posted By: vxcalais
Isnt sodium also added for oil pressure ?


crackmeup2.gif
This made me laugh at work. If you were being serious I'm sorry.

This is a FORUM, and on forums you have opinions and discussion. The problem with the OPs statement isn't that it's an opinion, but the manner in which he posted it. The OP stated his opinion as a fact, not an opinion. I agree that you should be able to post your opinion, but you've got to qualify your statement with an, "IMO, blah blah blah," or, "I'm not sure, but to me it seems..." so we know you're basing your opinion on speculation and personal opinion.

That being said, I would assume we're all smart enough to realize where we are - the interwebs - and realize that not everything you read should be taken as gospel. After a while you get to know who's opinion and facts you can trust, and who is full of poo.

Merry Holidays!
 
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