Oil to cause LSPI

[1978elcamino]

In a previous post I asked if running T6 5w40 (diesel oil) in my 2018 F150 w / 5.0 may cause LSPI. Most commented that it was probably not oil related and most likely inconsistency in fuel between filling up. Although filling up with premium cleaned up the clatter quite a bit but it was not gone completely. A couple weeks ago I changed the oil with QSUD 10w30 and guess what, no ping. Odd right? Well, for the most part its almost gone completely and since then I have filled up from 4 different fuel stations and virtually no noticable ping. I may also note that I have towed a few times and driven in hot sun and pouring down rain with high humidity here in florida, basically different load conditions and baro. The only difference I have noticed is since the oil was changed is the ping is gone. Am I on to something or is there some other phenomenon going on I dont realize?

 

[kschachn]

If in order to stop pinging you need to use a higher octane rating than the owner's manual requires, then I'd suggest you take it back to the dealership for repair. It should still be under warranty, correct?

The oil will have no effect on fuel-related pinging.

 

[1978elcamino]

I dident think oil had anything to do with it either unitl I found out about LSPI.

 

[Imp4]

Using the fuel and lubricants that the OEM specs is probably a good place to start.

It amazes me when someone comes with a situation in which they are off OEM spec in one or more areas and they're having issues. And then they pose questions around what could be causing their issue...

The easiest first step is to return to spec and establish a base line. Then start to change variables one at a time until you reproduce the condition. This process may take several months, but I bet you'll figure it out.

 

[doitmyself]

I haven't study LSPI at all, but a quick Google search shows lots of articles tying oil chemistry to LSPI. Here's one of many: https://www.oronite.com/about/news/low-speed-pre-ignition.aspx#lubricant-and-LSPI

"Many factors have been demonstrated to impact low speed pre-ignition (LSPI), including: engine designs, fuel composition and lubricant composition. On the lubricant side, the most noticeable impact has been from the detergent chemistry. Oils with higher concentrations of calcium, which is found in many detergent systems, have been shown to increase the frequency of LSPI. The exact chemistry of the detergent is less important to LSPI than the calcium content. Conversely, magnesium-based detergents do not seem to promote LSPI. Although reducing calcium may seem like a solution to control LSPI, there may be other performance tradeoffs to consider. In addition, there are other additives that can also help reduce LSPI events. This provides an opportunity to formulate for robust LSPI performance, while maintaining the level of detergency needed to help keep engines clean and neutralize acids generated during combustion.

Aside from the detergent system, there are many other additive and lubricant compositions that can influence LSPI. Molybdenum compounds, for example, not only provide frictional benefits, but also have been shown to decrease LSPI when used at high levels. Base oils also affect LSPI events. Both the quality of the base stock (i.e., Group II vs. Group III) and the viscosity can have secondary effects on LSPI. The effect on LSPI from these other lubricant aspects are not as significant as the detergent system, but can shift the LSPI frequency in oils that are more prone to LSPI."

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted by 1978elcamino
In a previous post I asked if running T6 5w40 (diesel oil) in my 2018 F150 w / 5.0 may cause LSPI. Most commented that it was probably not oil related and most likely inconsistency in fuel between filling up. Although filling up with premium cleaned up the clatter quite a bit but it was not gone completely. A couple weeks ago I changed the oil with QSUD 10w30 and guess what, no ping. Odd right? Well, for the most part its almost gone completely and since then I have filled up from 4 different fuel stations and virtually no noticable ping. I may also note that I have towed a few times and driven in hot sun and pouring down rain with high humidity here in florida, basically different load conditions and baro. The only difference I have noticed is since the oil was changed is the ping is gone. Am I on to something or is there some other phenomenon going on I dont realize?

Use European approved oils
1. Castrol Edge 0W40 (Wal mart available)
2. Mobil1 0W40 FS (Wal Mart available)
3. Castrol Edge 0W30 (Available on Amazon, my choice, but very expensive).
4. Valvoline 5W40 MST (Wal mart available).

There are numerous other available on internet. Look for oils that are approved for MB 229.5 approval. Do not pay too much attention on grade.

 

[kschachn]

This is not LSPI. This (if anything at all) is pinging. If it was LSPI the engine would be damaged.

I think it's something entirely different but it's not LSPI.

 

[The_Nuke]

Originally Posted by Imp4
Using the fuel and lubricants that the OEM specs is probably a good place to start.

It amazes me when someone comes with a situation in which they are off OEM spec in one or more areas and they're having issues. And then they pose questions around what could be causing their issue...

The easiest first step is to return to spec and establish a base line. Then start to change variables one at a time until you reproduce the condition. This process may take several months, but I bet you'll figure it out.



Are you suggesting we use logic and reason when diagnosing a automotive issue?? That's crazy talk!!

Besides spending less time and effort to troubleshoot the sameproblem, what on earth could be the benefit to employing such a questionable approach??

Please refrain from suggesting such unconventional processes here, as we believe anecdotal to be the ultimate form of evidence and simply have no patience for doing things ‘by the book'.

 

[edyvw]

I just saw it it is 5.0 F150. I am not familiar with F150 line up, but is that 5.0 V8? if yes, you do not have LSPI issue.
LSPI issue is problem on small turbo engines, like 1.5 or 1.6. Even 2.0 turbo do not have that often LSPI issue.

 

[AZjeff]

^ that.

Has anyone seen a documented case of LSPI in a non-turbo engine?

Maybe it's a twin turbo 5.0?

 

[tcp71]

The 2018 5.0 F150 is dual injection, non turbo. There is no LSPI issue. It can be pinging, but not from LSPI.

 

[dave1251]

LPSI can be controlled with oil. Octane does not prevent it because it's experienced with 87 octane and up to E85. If octane could control it manufacturer's would recommend a higher octane in a hot minute rather than deal with blown engine.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted by AZjeff
^ that.

Has anyone seen a documented case of LSPI in a non-turbo engine?

Maybe it's a twin turbo 5.0?

Even if it is twin turbo. Yet to see V8 TT with LSPI issue.

 

[benjy]

its good to see some manufacturers QUIETLY using both injections as not to draw attention to the issues with DI only!! i don't they really know or are NOT saying whats the cause of LSPI as just like DI issues sales can be effected $$$$$$

 

[Loobit]

LSPI most likely happens from lugging a turbo direct injection engine. Common pinging is erradic combustion after the spark plug ignites fuel due to glowing hot carbon buildup. Other causes could be from running lean, incorrect spark timing, wrong heat range spark plugs, or overheating - which I all doubt in your case. Cam timing from cam phasers can also be wrong if you use an incorrect oil filter that doesn't let oil flow right, or using wrong oil weight. I don't know if cam timing can cause pinging though. A check engine light could appear for that. That could have been your issue to an extent?

If changing the oil really did stop it, then personally I'd stick with the new oil and weight. If pinging comes back, the dealer will only scan for codes and/or recommend fuel system cleaning. That cleaning ain't cheap to do either, nor is it good for the cat converter when they do the intake cleaning part.

 

[typ901]

Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by 1978elcamino
In a previous post I asked if running T6 5w40 (diesel oil) in my 2018 F150 w / 5.0 may cause LSPI. Most commented that it was probably not oil related and most likely inconsistency in fuel between filling up. Although filling up with premium cleaned up the clatter quite a bit but it was not gone completely. A couple weeks ago I changed the oil with QSUD 10w30 and guess what, no ping. Odd right? Well, for the most part its almost gone completely and since then I have filled up from 4 different fuel stations and virtually no noticable ping. I may also note that I have towed a few times and driven in hot sun and pouring down rain with high humidity here in florida, basically different load conditions and baro. The only difference I have noticed is since the oil was changed is the ping is gone. Am I on to something or is there some other phenomenon going on I dont realize?

Use European approved oils
1. Castrol Edge 0W40 (Wal mart available)
2. Mobil1 0W40 FS (Wal Mart available)
3. Castrol Edge 0W30 (Available on Amazon, my choice, but very expensive).
4. Valvoline 5W40 MST (Wal mart available).

There are numerous other available on internet. Look for oils that are approved for MB 229.5 approval. Do not pay too much attention on grade.


According to Mobil you should use the oils recommended here:

https://mobiloil.com/en/article/why-the-mobil-advantage/mobil-1-modern-engines/lspi-protection

Centers around SN Plus.

 

[ChemLabNL]

Just use a high Moly oil and Marathon gas.

 

[LoneRanger]

Originally Posted by AZjeff
^ that.

Has anyone seen a documented case of LSPI in a non-turbo engine?

Maybe it's a twin turbo 5.0?


^^ x 2

LSPI is only on the small displacement direct injection turbo engines. Not possible on the Ford 5.0 "coyote" V8. OP was experiencing ping. I'm not saying that the heavy oil in use at the time didn't possibly contribute, just that technically it is not LSPI as it is currently defined.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted by typ901
Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by 1978elcamino
In a previous post I asked if running T6 5w40 (diesel oil) in my 2018 F150 w / 5.0 may cause LSPI. Most commented that it was probably not oil related and most likely inconsistency in fuel between filling up. Although filling up with premium cleaned up the clatter quite a bit but it was not gone completely. A couple weeks ago I changed the oil with QSUD 10w30 and guess what, no ping. Odd right? Well, for the most part its almost gone completely and since then I have filled up from 4 different fuel stations and virtually no noticable ping. I may also note that I have towed a few times and driven in hot sun and pouring down rain with high humidity here in florida, basically different load conditions and baro. The only difference I have noticed is since the oil was changed is the ping is gone. Am I on to something or is there some other phenomenon going on I dont realize?

Use European approved oils
1. Castrol Edge 0W40 (Wal mart available)
2. Mobil1 0W40 FS (Wal Mart available)
3. Castrol Edge 0W30 (Available on Amazon, my choice, but very expensive).
4. Valvoline 5W40 MST (Wal mart available).

There are numerous other available on internet. Look for oils that are approved for MB 229.5 approval. Do not pay too much attention on grade.


According to Mobil you should use the oils recommended here:

https://mobiloil.com/en/article/why-the-mobil-advantage/mobil-1-modern-engines/lspi-protection

Centers around SN Plus.

I know what is recommended. I posted this thinking it is Ecoboost.
As for SN+, it is irrelevant for Euro oils. They are far more stringent than SN+ requirements.

 

[wemay]

Originally Posted by kschachn
This is not LSPI. This (if anything at all) is pinging. If it was LSPI the engine would be damaged.

I think it's something entirely different but it's not LSPI.


This^