Oil Suggestions

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: Gremlin85
I'm leaning towards that AMsoil.


If you are genuinely looking for an oil that is a little more robust than what you were using (though I'm not sure that is necessary given your experience) then I would highly suggest taking a look at Mobil 1 0w40.

It has oodles of approvals for a host of high performance applications, many of which include turbo's.

That being said, you are using an oil that IIRC, meets the HTO-06 spec, which is a high heat deposit control spec for turbo engines that was also met by the oil you were using previously.

 

[Gremlin85]

Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Originally Posted By: DrDusty86
I'd run Amsoil or Redline, or RP 0w40, Pennzoil Ultra,PP. Stay away from Mobil 1, it's a little lame for it being "synthetic" it may also cause excessive Iron to show up in used oil analysis from wear on the Iron parts.


Strange, it would appear as though the OP's experience with Mobil 1 in this engine, that is being discussed, in this thread, that ran 24psi of boost, making almost twice its stock power levels, was protected just fine by Mobil 1 BASED ON AN ACTUAL TEAR DOWN.

Which again shows us WHAT regarding the value of used oil analysis again?

Right, that they aren't a tool designed to measure engine wear.

No wonder Doug hasn't posted in ages...... All that real, hands-on data and people still parade this tripe around the board like it is "fact".


I would like to also add that I plan to tear down the motor AGAIN once I upgrade the internals and turbo late this year. I can then have more hands on experience with wear protection at that point by examining the bearings, pistons and cams from an acutal tear down. The cams, pistons and bearings are all NEW as of 5000 miles ago. It's make for a really good comparison later on.

I hope to contribute as much as possible here with what I find.


Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Originally Posted By: Gremlin85
I'm leaning towards that AMsoil.


If you are genuinely looking for an oil that is a little more robust than what you were using (though I'm not sure that is necessary given your experience) then I would highly suggest taking a look at Mobil 1 0w40.

It has oodles of approvals for a host of high performance applications, many of which include turbo's.

That being said, you are using an oil that IIRC, meets the HTO-06 spec, which is a high heat deposit control spec for turbo engines that was also met by the oil you were using previously.


So my Pennzoil Ultra 5W30 that I'm using is comparible to Mobil 1 0W40 as far as protection goes?

I think I SHOULD lean more towards a 0W40 weight given the daily use and abuse it gets.

Question still stands, should I bother changing out my oil before the track for 0W40 or should I just run it year-round? I do drive it in the winter and cold starts can get as low as 0 degrees F.

 

[buster]

Easy. Mobil 1 Extended Performance 5w30.

There very few oils that can match Mobil 1 for turbos.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: Gremlin85


So my Pennzoil Ultra 5W30 that I'm using is comparible to Mobil 1 0W40 as far as protection goes?

I think I SHOULD lean more towards a 0W40 weight given the daily use and abuse it gets.

Question still stands, should I bother changing out my oil before the track for 0W40 or should I just run it year-round? I do drive it in the winter and cold starts can get as low as 0 degrees F.


No, Mobil 1 5w30 (what you ran before) has the HTO-06 spec like the Pennzoil Ultra 5w30 you are running. Nothing in Pennzoil's line-up has the same number of approvals as Mobil 1 0w40 does. Actually, I don't think any other oil on the market does.

It IS that good.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Originally Posted By: DrDusty86
I'd run Amsoil or Redline, or RP 0w40, PU,PP. Stay away from M1, it's a little lame for it being "synthetic" it may also cause excessive Iron to show up in used oil analysis from wear on the Iron parts.


Strange, it would appear as though the OP's experience with M1 in this engine, that is being discussed, in this thread, that ran 24psi of boost, making almost twice its stock power levels, was protected just fine by Mobil 1 BASED ON AN ACTUAL TEAR DOWN.

Which again shows us WHAT regarding the value of used oil analysis again?

Right, that they aren't a tool designed to measure engine wear.

No wonder Doug hasn't posted in ages...... All that real, hands-on data and people still parade this tripe around the board like it is "fact".


I agree. I'd stick with M1, it has proven itself via tear down in this case. Not like a $25 used oil analysis and hoping that the data is accurately representing what is really going on inside the engine. Their 0W40 should work fine for your application.

 

[Gremlin85]

I've been reading throughout the forum and online and I am finding A LOT on Mobil 1 0W40.

Only question left is, why use 0W40 instead of the recommended 5W30? Because of the European spec the 0W40 has?

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: Gremlin85
I've been reading throughout the forum and online and I am finding A LOT on Mobil 1 0W40.

Only question left is, why use 0W40 instead of the recommended 5W30? Because of the European spec the 0W40 has?


It is slightly heavier and has a higher HTHS, meaning it is thicker under the shear conditions in the bearings. This is important if you are experiencing elevated oil temperatures and extreme shear loads (lots of BOOOOOOOOOOST!

)

It also has higher levels of antiwear additives like Zinc/Phos.

 

[Gremlin85]

Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Originally Posted By: Gremlin85
I've been reading throughout the forum and online and I am finding A LOT on Mobil 1 0W40.

Only question left is, why use 0W40 instead of the recommended 5W30? Because of the European spec the 0W40 has?


It is slightly heavier and has a higher HTHS, meaning it is thicker under the shear conditions in the bearings. This is important if you are experiencing elevated oil temperatures and extreme shear loads (lots of BOOOOOOOOOOST!

)

It also has higher levels of antiwear additives like Zinc/Phos.


I think this is something that I'll use when it's warmer out and I actually go to the track.

I don't think I should run it in the winter.

P.S. I am addicted to BOOOOOOOOSSST!

 

[Gremlin85]

Upon further research I think Castrol Syntec 0W30 (German Castrol) is what I'll use day-to-day and I'll switch to Mobil 1 0W40 in summer and for the track.

Unless someone knows something I don't...?

 

[Maxima97]

Cheap replacement is the Valvoline Maxlife 5W,10W-30 syn blend. HTHS are above 3.0 and high in moly

 

[CATERHAM]

Originally Posted By: Gremlin85
Upon further research I think Castrol Syntec 0W30 (German Castrol) is what I'll use day-to-day and I'll switch to Mobil 1 0W40 in summer and for the track.
Unless someone knows something I don't...?

What's sad is that no one has raised the most pertinent question and that is what is your oil pressure?
Unless you know what your current operational viscosity is how do you even know you automatically require a heavier oil? You don't. The best proxy for operational viscosity is an engine's oil pressusre level.

Drag racing doesn't generate high oil temp's, in fact at the strip oil temp's sruggle to reach normal levels if at all. Under such conditions a lighter oil is often the way to go.

If you don't have an OP gauge, install one, and then we'll talk about what oil viscosity you should be running.

 

[Gremlin85]

Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Originally Posted By: Gremlin85
Upon further research I think Castrol Syntec 0W30 (German Castrol) is what I'll use day-to-day and I'll switch to Mobil 1 0W40 in summer and for the track.
Unless someone knows something I don't...?

What's sad is that no one has raised the most pertinent question and that is what is your oil pressure?
Unless you know what your current operational viscosity is how do you even know you automatically require a heavier oil? You don't. The best proxy for operational viscosity is an engine's oil pressusre level.

Drag racing doesn't generate high oil temp's, in fact at the strip oil temp's sruggle to reach normal levels if at all. Under such conditions a lighter oil is often the way to go.

If you don't have an OP gauge, install one, and then we'll talk about what oil viscosity you should be running.


Normal operating temps about 30 psi at idle and about 80 at WOT.

At the track I never run the car until the coolant is at least up to operating temp and a few back-to-back runs I've seen the pressure drop to about 15-20 psi at idle and 65-70 at WOT.

Cold weather cold start-up it's off the gauge.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: Gremlin85
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Originally Posted By: Gremlin85
Upon further research I think Castrol Syntec 0W30 (German Castrol) is what I'll use day-to-day and I'll switch to Mobil 1 0W40 in summer and for the track.
Unless someone knows something I don't...?

What's sad is that no one has raised the most pertinent question and that is what is your oil pressure?
Unless you know what your current operational viscosity is how do you even know you automatically require a heavier oil? You don't. The best proxy for operational viscosity is an engine's oil pressusre level.

Drag racing doesn't generate high oil temp's, in fact at the strip oil temp's sruggle to reach normal levels if at all. Under such conditions a lighter oil is often the way to go.

If you don't have an OP gauge, install one, and then we'll talk about what oil viscosity you should be running.


Normal operating temps about 30 psi at idle and about 80 at WOT.

At the track I never run the car until the coolant is at least up to operating temp and a few back-to-back runs I've seen the pressure drop to about 15-20 psi at idle and 65-70 at WOT.

Cold weather cold start-up it's off the gauge.


You should invest in an oil temperature gauge too.

Are you doing auto-crossing as well?

 

[Gremlin85]

No auto-X for me.

My HP Tuners data logs oil temps and i think normal operating temp hovers around 200-210. I think at the track, IIRC, it hit 260-280-ish.

In theory, wouldn't the 0W30 GC be an optimal oil for this motor? The cold weather here can justify the 0 and the 30 meets original standards. Not to mention the additive package in the GC seems to be great for DI Turbo motors.

I don't know if I'm misunderstanding or not.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: Gremlin85
No auto-X for me.

My HP Tuners data logs oil temps and i think normal operating temp hovers around 200-210. I think at the track, IIRC, it hit 260-280-ish.

In theory, wouldn't the 0W30 GC be an optimal oil for this motor? The cold weather here can justify the 0 and the 30 meets original standards. Not to mention the additive package in the GC seems to be great for DI Turbo motors.

I don't know if I'm misunderstanding or not.


Well that's the fun of the oil grading system

Mobil 1 0w40 isn't much heavier than GC 0w40 at temp. It is a light 40, and GC is a heavy 30. However, Mobil 1 0w40 has a much higher VI, meaning it is actually THINNER at cold temperatures than GC is.

It is a much more "modern" lubricant in that regard and this makes it a better choice if you are intent on going heavier than what you've been using, which, IMHO, we still haven't established is necessary (and what CATERHAM is getting at above).

Basically, if you want to go heavier, Mobil 1 0w40 is a better choice all around than GC.

 

[Gremlin85]

Understood.

you guy's have been great! I learned more today than I have in the past 5 years haha. Thank you all so much!

I definitely have to do my own testing to see what is actually best in my motor in real world use and MY driving habits.

I think I know where to start now and see where to go from there.

This is far from over though

 

[ARCOgraphite]

Gremlin: These SL European oils dont have race level additisation. They arent even at the old SJ/SH level. Your engine is equilvalent to a 600BHP 4 litre V8. I would forget running PCMO at the track and take this discussion over to the racing oil threads. Dont discount the Lucas real PAO synthetic or Brad Penn or Redline 5w3-0 or 40. I would not run an extremely high VII oil in this engine at the track or when your feeling frisky.

 

[CATERHAM]

Originally Posted By: Gremlin85
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Originally Posted By: Gremlin85
Upon further research I think Castrol Syntec 0W30 (German Castrol) is what I'll use day-to-day and I'll switch to Mobil 1 0W40 in summer and for the track.
Unless someone knows something I don't...?

What's sad is that no one has raised the most pertinent question and that is what is your oil pressure?
Unless you know what your current operational viscosity is how do you even know you automatically require a heavier oil? You don't. The best proxy for operational viscosity is an engine's oil pressusre level.

Drag racing doesn't generate high oil temp's, in fact at the strip oil temp's sruggle to reach normal levels if at all. Under such conditions a lighter oil is often the way to go.

If you don't have an OP gauge, install one, and then we'll talk about what oil viscosity you should be running.


Normal operating temps about 30 psi at idle and about 80 at WOT.

At the track I never run the car until the coolant is at least up to operating temp and a few back-to-back runs I've seen the pressure drop to about 15-20 psi at idle and 65-70 at WOT.

Cold weather cold start-up it's off the gauge.

Thanks for the OP info.
I presume that was with the Pennzoil Platinum 5w30?
65-70 psi at elevated rev's sounds pretty good and I would be comfortable with that.
Conclusion; it would be counterproductive to run an oil any heavier than what you're running now.
If you do want to try something "special" and don't mind the higher cost I'd suggest Red Line 0W-30. This is a PAO/POE high moly and ZDDP oil that's very turbo friendly.

Cheers!

 

[Gremlin85]

Race section, ey?

The oil pressure was actually on Mobil 1 5W30... I'll look into that Redline oil. TY!

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
Gremlin: These SL European oils dont have race level additisation. They arent even at the old SJ/SH level. Your engine is equilvalent to a 600BHP 4 litre V8. I would forget running PCMO at the track and take this discussion over to the racing oil threads. Dont discount the Lucas real PAO synthetic or Brad Penn or Redline 5w3-0 or 40. I would not run an extremely high VII oil in this engine at the track or when your feeling frisky.


I disagree, and his tear-down doesn't appear to agree with you either from what he's mentioned.

Mobil 1 0w40 is SM BTW, at least up here. And given that the AW additives in Mobil 1 5w30 appeared to protect this engine just fine, the increased levels in Mobil 1 0w40 may in fact be overkill.

Yes, he's making ~180HP/L, but it was making 130HP/L stock, and rated (and tested by GM) for 5w30 at that power level.