Has one one here ever had or known anyone who has had an oil related failure? Either running the wrong viscosity oil or oil that was the wrong specifications recommended by the car or truck manufacturer? Or other?
Oil related failure
- Thread starter Camprunner
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I assume you mean a blown engine.
I had an oil related failure with ST conventional oil but I was watching it and so far no damage.
The oil had issues and I still have the unused 1/2 a quart from the jug. I should have sent it out for analysis but never did.
I had an oil related failure with ST conventional oil but I was watching it and so far no damage.
The oil had issues and I still have the unused 1/2 a quart from the jug. I should have sent it out for analysis but never did.
AgS, please elaborate. I ran mostly SuperTech conventional 20w50 for yrs with no trouble. Granted this was back when I used a 3k OCI.
Originally Posted By: andyd
AgS, please elaborate. I ran mostly SuperTech conventional 20w50 for yrs with no trouble. Granted this was back when I used a 3k OCI.
One member here had an OCI with 12K on ST conventional oil with no issue.
The closest I came to oil related failure was the oil pump falling off of my Jeep's engine.
AgS, please elaborate. I ran mostly SuperTech conventional 20w50 for yrs with no trouble. Granted this was back when I used a 3k OCI.
One member here had an OCI with 12K on ST conventional oil with no issue.
The closest I came to oil related failure was the oil pump falling off of my Jeep's engine.
Originally Posted By: andyd
AgS, please elaborate. I ran mostly SuperTech conventional 20w50 for yrs with no trouble. Granted this was back when I used a 3k OCI.
Yes, I would love to hear this too...
AgS, please elaborate. I ran mostly SuperTech conventional 20w50 for yrs with no trouble. Granted this was back when I used a 3k OCI.
Yes, I would love to hear this too...
Originally Posted By: Miller88
The closest I came to oil related failure was the oil pump falling off of my Jeep's engine.
that happened to my 69 Chevelle before I bought it for cheap. Must be a6 cylinders thing
The closest I came to oil related failure was the oil pump falling off of my Jeep's engine.
that happened to my 69 Chevelle before I bought it for cheap. Must be a6 cylinders thing
Originally Posted By: Chris142
Originally Posted By: Miller88
The closest I came to oil related failure was the oil pump falling off of my Jeep's engine.
that happened to my 69 Chevelle before I bought it for cheap. Must be a6 cylinders thing
Thankfully it was still being driven by the cam; it had not fallen down enough to not pump at all. But since it had started to fall away from the block, most of the oil was just dumping back in the pan. I took a video back in 2013 or 2014 of it knocking slightly and it continually got worse to the point that I was convinced I was going to find pieces of aluminum in the pan. After bolting the oil pump back up it's whisper quiet again.
Originally Posted By: Miller88
The closest I came to oil related failure was the oil pump falling off of my Jeep's engine.
that happened to my 69 Chevelle before I bought it for cheap. Must be a6 cylinders thing
Thankfully it was still being driven by the cam; it had not fallen down enough to not pump at all. But since it had started to fall away from the block, most of the oil was just dumping back in the pan. I took a video back in 2013 or 2014 of it knocking slightly and it continually got worse to the point that I was convinced I was going to find pieces of aluminum in the pan. After bolting the oil pump back up it's whisper quiet again.
Kestas
Staff member
30 years ago, when I ran 20W-50 in my Omni, the car failed to start in 15 deg weather.
I see several engine failures regularly.
If you're using the Manufacturer recommended oil spec, an OEM filter for a recommended oci, but the oil fails to protect engine components (on more than one engine with the same oil) who's at fault? what if the oil can't handle the amount of soot, and that causes a failure? Is that a driver error, oil fault or poor design of the engine?
If you're using the Manufacturer recommended oil spec, an OEM filter for a recommended oci, but the oil fails to protect engine components (on more than one engine with the same oil) who's at fault? what if the oil can't handle the amount of soot, and that causes a failure? Is that a driver error, oil fault or poor design of the engine?
Probably the people that never change their is what causes "several engine failures"
Originally Posted By: Miller88
Originally Posted By: andyd
AgS, please elaborate. I ran mostly SuperTech conventional 20w50 for yrs with no trouble. Granted this was back when I used a 3k OCI.
The closest I came to oil related failure was the oil pump falling off of my Jeep's engine.
How did this happen?
Originally Posted By: andyd
AgS, please elaborate. I ran mostly SuperTech conventional 20w50 for yrs with no trouble. Granted this was back when I used a 3k OCI.
The closest I came to oil related failure was the oil pump falling off of my Jeep's engine.
How did this happen?
Originally Posted By: dlundblad
Originally Posted By: Miller88
Originally Posted By: andyd
AgS, please elaborate. I ran mostly SuperTech conventional 20w50 for yrs with no trouble. Granted this was back when I used a 3k OCI.
The closest I came to oil related failure was the oil pump falling off of my Jeep's engine.
How did this happen?
Oil pump bolts backed out. One was in the pan.
I probably should have replaced the gasket at minimum, but I didn't. I thought about replacing the pump or doing a HV oil pump but it seems they don't quite fit in the pan.
Originally Posted By: Miller88
Originally Posted By: andyd
AgS, please elaborate. I ran mostly SuperTech conventional 20w50 for yrs with no trouble. Granted this was back when I used a 3k OCI.
The closest I came to oil related failure was the oil pump falling off of my Jeep's engine.
How did this happen?
Oil pump bolts backed out. One was in the pan.
I probably should have replaced the gasket at minimum, but I didn't. I thought about replacing the pump or doing a HV oil pump but it seems they don't quite fit in the pan.
Originally Posted By: Kestas
30 years ago, when I ran 20W-50 in my Omni, the car failed to start in 15 deg weather.
Ummm, I'm not a huge fan of 20w-50 but knowing a few of those cars when I was young, I don't think it was the thick oil that caused it to not start. I don't think those ever really had more than a 3% chance of starting, regardless of oil.
30 years ago, when I ran 20W-50 in my Omni, the car failed to start in 15 deg weather.
Ummm, I'm not a huge fan of 20w-50 but knowing a few of those cars when I was young, I don't think it was the thick oil that caused it to not start. I don't think those ever really had more than a 3% chance of starting, regardless of oil.
I've never lost a flat tappet cam/lifters (yet...), but friends have, and it's total engine carnage as the hardened metal makes it's way around. Most does not go through the pump, but is tossed every which way by the spinning crankshaft. A lot ends up embedded in piston skirts, so there goes the cylinder walls. Of course what does make it through the pump kills the bearings and journals ...
These folks used "break-in" oil, sometimes from the cam manufacturer ... I have come to despise break-in oils. They are real-oil's weak cousins when what is needed is a very robust oil film and zinc to let things have time to "seat in". Most of the lost cams and lifters were Comp. I have never used a Comp Cam, but it looks like they went through a bad period ...
OTOH, I had one set of plasma-moly rings not seat with synthetic straight from the get go (Mobil 1) ... So I won't do that again. All my rebuilds get quality conventional oil for the first 5,000 miles. If it's a summer rebuild, it gets SAE 30 HD (usually Delo). If it's a winter rebuild, It'll get 10w30 (usually Chevron Supreme).
2-stroke Outboards, Bikes and Chainsaws are a different animal. They all get broken in after a re-ring with Motul 710 at 24:1 or there abouts. Then they can get weened down to 40:1 and run a long happy time making mosquitoes unhappy
So oil failures, well the cams are prolly related to soft cores or bad lifters (not hard enough)... But I will put those down to lubrication failures too. The ring issues were likely related to the wrong cross-hatch for synthetic oil, but I been using the same roughly 30*~45* angle for a few decades and have no issues with conventional oils, so that will get tossed into the oil category too ...
I've had marine engines seize when the oil could not deal with any more water ... So maybe that's an oil failure too
These folks used "break-in" oil, sometimes from the cam manufacturer ... I have come to despise break-in oils. They are real-oil's weak cousins when what is needed is a very robust oil film and zinc to let things have time to "seat in". Most of the lost cams and lifters were Comp. I have never used a Comp Cam, but it looks like they went through a bad period ...
OTOH, I had one set of plasma-moly rings not seat with synthetic straight from the get go (Mobil 1) ... So I won't do that again. All my rebuilds get quality conventional oil for the first 5,000 miles. If it's a summer rebuild, it gets SAE 30 HD (usually Delo). If it's a winter rebuild, It'll get 10w30 (usually Chevron Supreme).
2-stroke Outboards, Bikes and Chainsaws are a different animal. They all get broken in after a re-ring with Motul 710 at 24:1 or there abouts. Then they can get weened down to 40:1 and run a long happy time making mosquitoes unhappy
So oil failures, well the cams are prolly related to soft cores or bad lifters (not hard enough)... But I will put those down to lubrication failures too. The ring issues were likely related to the wrong cross-hatch for synthetic oil, but I been using the same roughly 30*~45* angle for a few decades and have no issues with conventional oils, so that will get tossed into the oil category too ...
I've had marine engines seize when the oil could not deal with any more water ... So maybe that's an oil failure too
They occur over many years - either accelerated basic wear, or sludging, acid pitting, etc., that results in accelerated wear. Maybe in extreme conditions (like track use with a light oil) you'll have complete barrier failure and a meltdown/explosion, but that's not a normal circumstance.
So its hard to say "i did this and the following resulted". You might see the connection, but its probably false - the condition happened over many, many OCs.
But at the track, yea, i've seen quite a few. Manhy also related to oil system failure (starvation).
Just Me
So its hard to say "i did this and the following resulted". You might see the connection, but its probably false - the condition happened over many, many OCs.
But at the track, yea, i've seen quite a few. Manhy also related to oil system failure (starvation).
Just Me
I've never had an oil related failure and I've never heard of or seen one that didn't involve either running an engine out of oil (inexcusably stupid) or using OCIs long enough to induce ultimately fatal sludge (inexcusably negligent).
In the second case, a woman who worked for me had such a failure with her '94 Camry at around 100K. She had bought the car new. The car was mainly short-tripped and treated to Walmart oil changes on an irregular basis.
Her husband found someone to "rebuild" the engine for something like $1700.00. I told her that there was no way that you could R&R an engine and do a good field overhaul for that kind of coin. She of course ignored me since anything I suggested would have involved more immediate out-of-pocket expense, which they could have afforded. The "rebuilt" Camry expired again about 40K later. The engine was replaced with a used unit after which the never serviced transaxle took a dump.
You can do it cheap with maintenance and repairs or you can do it right.
Doing it right is always cheaper in the long run.
In the second case, a woman who worked for me had such a failure with her '94 Camry at around 100K. She had bought the car new. The car was mainly short-tripped and treated to Walmart oil changes on an irregular basis.
Her husband found someone to "rebuild" the engine for something like $1700.00. I told her that there was no way that you could R&R an engine and do a good field overhaul for that kind of coin. She of course ignored me since anything I suggested would have involved more immediate out-of-pocket expense, which they could have afforded. The "rebuilt" Camry expired again about 40K later. The engine was replaced with a used unit after which the never serviced transaxle took a dump.
You can do it cheap with maintenance and repairs or you can do it right.
Doing it right is always cheaper in the long run.
XR Honda's and other dirt bike singles had cam and rocker wear back in the '80's and '90's, some used to flog out in the head too. It was very common....but those same engines now, much older and worn, don't have those issues. It must have been an oil related issue because other than unleaded fuel, nothing has changed.
3-4 winters ago, I had a mix of GTX 10w30 and HM 10w30 in the sump of my 2003 Tribute V-6.
X-Mas morning, it went down to -29.5 Celcius.....and the car barely cranked, not nearly fast enough to start. Battery wasn't that old, either.
Took about 10 minutes of cranking while hooked up to my BIL's car with jumper cables to catch; and even then made horrible noises for 2-3 minutes until it settled down.
I knew it would be hard to start; but not that bad. Will never use 10w30 in the winter again!!!
X-Mas morning, it went down to -29.5 Celcius.....and the car barely cranked, not nearly fast enough to start. Battery wasn't that old, either.
Took about 10 minutes of cranking while hooked up to my BIL's car with jumper cables to catch; and even then made horrible noises for 2-3 minutes until it settled down.
I knew it would be hard to start; but not that bad. Will never use 10w30 in the winter again!!!
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