Oil Recommendation, Cat Converter Protection

[kschachn]

Well there is no such thing as “sulfated ash” in the engine, the sulfation comes from the ASTM test procedure that measures the amount of ash. In a engine it is just “ash”.

And ESP is not high in phosphorus given the HT/HS. It’s not the lowest but it’s not high either. 1000ppm and above is high.

https://www.mobil.com/en/lubricants/for-personal-vehicles/our-products/products/mobil-1-esp-5w-30

 

[IndyFan]

Well there is no such thing as “sulfated ash” in the engine, the sulfation comes from the ASTM test procedure that measures the amount of ash. In a engine it is just “ash”.

And ESP is not high in phosphorus given the HT/HS. It’s not the lowest but it’s not high either. 1000ppm and above is high.

https://www.mobil.com/en/lubricants/for-personal-vehicles/our-products/products/mobil-1-esp-5w-30

The VOA I saw of the 0w20 showed about 700 or 800ppm phosphorus. Mobil 1 EP, for comparison, was around 475, IIRC. So would that make EP better for protecting the cats, or is this stuff potentially better, due to other additives or formulation differences?

 

[blufeb95]

The VOA I saw of the 0w20 showed about 700 or 800ppm phosphorus. Mobil 1 EP, for comparison, was around 475, IIRC. So would that make EP better for protecting the cats, or is this stuff potentially better, due to other additives or formulation differences?

Should be around 650ppm of phosphorous from what I've seen in oil analysis and the Mobil 1 product guide, I believe all API SM or later oils have to have at least 600ppm of phos and a maximum of 800ppm, assuming they're not monograde, 40 grade or thicker, or the oil isn't a dual rated HDEO that was licensed prior to the API's decision to require all dual rated HDEOs adhere to the S rating limits.

 

[kschachn]

The VOA I saw of the 0w20 showed about 700 or 800ppm phosphorus. Mobil 1 EP, for comparison, was around 475, IIRC. So would that make EP better for protecting the cats, or is this stuff potentially better, due to other additives or formulation differences?

Only if you are burning a large amount of oil. Low or lower SAPS oils protect other aspects of the emissions of course and those aren't directly related to excessive oil consumption. My old Sienna with nearly 450,000 miles is burning about a quart every 3500 miles and so far the original catalytic converter is functioning sufficiently well to not set a code. Some automakers even consider a quart per 1000 miles to be "normal", so apparently it takes quite a bit of consumption to passivate a converter.

 

[jqgz]

Lol, I'm sorry for the confusion. I typed the original post on my phone and didn't see that I mistakenly put 100k where it should have said 1k, and that I did not say miles. So thanks for helping me clarify. I've corrected the original.

So it is between zero and 3/4 quart every 1k miles. I'd say on average 1/2 per 1k miles. A couple of times over the years it got close to 1 quart per 1k miles, but just not quite, and again, not often. The dealership has said if it gets to 1 quart per 1k miles, they will replace the engine under the lifetime powertrain warranty. But it just hasn't gotten there. For the last few thousand miles, it has been around 1/4 quart per 1k. It really has no rhyme or reason.

Start draining a bit of oil so it gets to 1 quart per 1k miles. Make FCA put their money where their mouth is.

 

[IndyFan]

Start draining a bit of oil so it gets to 1 quart per 1k miles. Make FCA put their money where their mouth is.

Lol, they've taken good care of me in the past, so I'm not going to do that to them or compromise my integrity over it. Besides that, they mark and seal the drain plug and fill cap and might even do something to the dip stick to ensure they are getting a true and accurate reading.

 

[IndyFan]

Only if you are burning a large amount of oil. Low or lower SAPS oils protect other aspects of the emissions of course and those aren't directly related to excessive oil consumption. My old Sienna with nearly 450,000 miles is burning about a quart every 3500 miles and so far the original catalytic converter is functioning sufficiently well to not set a code. Some automakers even consider a quart per 1000 miles to be "normal", so apparently it takes quite a bit of consumption to passivate a converter.

That's good to know. I know that they've told me that 1 quart per 1k miles is the threshold and I think I've seen others at the same standard, such as GM and maybe Ford. I'm going to monitor it and when the consumption rises again (right now it is probably 1/3 qt per 1k) I'll zip into the dealership and start the consumption test.

In the meantime, I'm still wondering which oil will have the advantage in protecting the cats between the ESP and the EP, given the only thing I have to go on right now is a best guess about phosphorus.

 

[blufeb95]

That's good to know. I know that they've told me that 1 quart per 1k miles is the threshold and I think I've seen others at the same standard, such as GM and maybe Ford. I'm going to monitor it and when the consumption rises again (right now it is probably 1/3 qt per 1k) I'll zip into the dealership and start the consumption test.

In the meantime, I'm still wondering which oil will have the advantage in protecting the cats between the ESP and the EP, given the only thing I have to go on right now is a best guess about phosphorus.

I'd say EP should be safer for the cat, EP and AP had 650ppm of phos whereas ESP is nearly 900ppm, according to the product guide, although that was for the SN+ and GF-5 version of EP not the current, but I don't see why it should have changed much for SP/GF-6A, from older formulations, mobil 1 EP and AP was reported as .8% ash, so it should be comparable to that of ESP,
https://www.mobil.com/lubricants/-/...w-us-1/files/mobil-1-product-guide-rev-31.pdf

 

[TeamZero]

Lol, they've taken good care of me in the past, so I'm not going to do that to them or compromise my integrity over it. Besides that, they mark and seal the drain plug and fill cap and might even do something to the dip stick to ensure they are getting a true and accurate reading.

Its not hurting the dealer any. Not that hard to take some out...pm me if want info....we do these checks all the time at the dealer.