They did provide a build sheet and the final clearances on mains are between .0018-.0020 which i would think is about right a performance engine making roughly 650hp should be built a bit looser than stock. but thats assuming their measurements are all good, or something is expanding at those temps. Or the oil needs to run cooler? i carry great pressure till the oil heads north of 210.
Oil reccomendation for LS3 Stroker
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Originally Posted By: rennocneb
im pulling the pressure and temp right from the PCM via HP Tuners. as i said im seeing a 24psi idle at 215 degree oil temp currently but thats running 20w-50 convential VR1. Wanting a rec for an oil that will be a bit better for my application but still carry enough hot oil pressure. Also trying to weight wether its the oil thinning due to heat, or if its the engine block opening up due to heat.
OK, this is better. I like these numbers. But I do NOT like that thick of an oil in a new LS engine! I just built an iron block 6 liter GM and it runs 20 psi at hot idle on 10w-30!
get some Amsoil Dominator in 15w-50 and you're good to go. Sounds like they built it big and loose, nothing wrong with that at 650 hp.
im pulling the pressure and temp right from the PCM via HP Tuners. as i said im seeing a 24psi idle at 215 degree oil temp currently but thats running 20w-50 convential VR1. Wanting a rec for an oil that will be a bit better for my application but still carry enough hot oil pressure. Also trying to weight wether its the oil thinning due to heat, or if its the engine block opening up due to heat.
OK, this is better. I like these numbers. But I do NOT like that thick of an oil in a new LS engine! I just built an iron block 6 liter GM and it runs 20 psi at hot idle on 10w-30!
get some Amsoil Dominator in 15w-50 and you're good to go. Sounds like they built it big and loose, nothing wrong with that at 650 hp.
I work with a guy who has a 9.2 litre in a '71 Chevelle, and he runs Mobil 1 10w30 as per the engine builder. Everthing is rollerized so the lower zddp should be ok. If you want more zddp try off the shelf stuff like Mobil 1 15w50 or 0w40. The Valvoline 20w50 has lots of zddp and is used by many people that race. They have vr1 sybthetic also.
Looking at some LS sites, there was some talk of building aluminum blocks with less than 0.002 clearances. Someone even said their builder put a bare aluminum block in an oven and the mains opened up by 0.003. One comment stated that the road racecars have to be pre-heated before being fired because they are built so tight. According to this at least, the aluminum with the clearance could be part of the issue.
Originally Posted By: rennocneb
is the amsoil enough better than mobil 1 to be worth hunting for it? also that is my concern is this thick oil hurting me? or just eating some horsepower?
Definitely costing a few ponies, but not many. I run Dominator in my big money blown stroker in a boat. I also run it when I do track days in the car. It's a real good oil.
That VR1 synthetic is an excellent choice. You probably don't need the zddp but if it makes you feel good...
is the amsoil enough better than mobil 1 to be worth hunting for it? also that is my concern is this thick oil hurting me? or just eating some horsepower?
Definitely costing a few ponies, but not many. I run Dominator in my big money blown stroker in a boat. I also run it when I do track days in the car. It's a real good oil.
That VR1 synthetic is an excellent choice. You probably don't need the zddp but if it makes you feel good...
Originally Posted By: rennocneb
my coolant temp ran 190 today, not crazy hot by any means. I have been considering going to a 160 degree tstat though, and adjusting the fans a bit to keep coolant temps around 170-180. that should help some im sure.
If you do this, make sure that you adjust the tune for this as well.
I take for granted that there are not even metal matrix catcons at the end of the long tubes, correct?
As far as oil goes, I would just try Red Line 0W-40, or 10W-40 both have a very high HTHS viscosity, and basically do NOT shear with heat and very hard use.
Then a good, thermostatically controlled oil cooler, maybe even with it's own dedicated fan attached.
Do you use this Commodore daily, right through the entire winter??
BTW; my completely stock internal LS1 sits at almost 50psi cold idle, 40-45psi hot idle, and NEVER drops below 35psi, even after hard running, in the heat, at a open track day.
my coolant temp ran 190 today, not crazy hot by any means. I have been considering going to a 160 degree tstat though, and adjusting the fans a bit to keep coolant temps around 170-180. that should help some im sure.
If you do this, make sure that you adjust the tune for this as well.
I take for granted that there are not even metal matrix catcons at the end of the long tubes, correct?
As far as oil goes, I would just try Red Line 0W-40, or 10W-40 both have a very high HTHS viscosity, and basically do NOT shear with heat and very hard use.
Then a good, thermostatically controlled oil cooler, maybe even with it's own dedicated fan attached.
Do you use this Commodore daily, right through the entire winter??
BTW; my completely stock internal LS1 sits at almost 50psi cold idle, 40-45psi hot idle, and NEVER drops below 35psi, even after hard running, in the heat, at a open track day.
Originally Posted By: cp3
One comment stated that the road racecars have to be pre-heated before being fired because they are built so tight.
I would not be the least suprised to find that the C6R teams use oil pre-heaters which actually circulate the oil through the system.
Same with the coolant/water.
I may even call Katech (their engine builders) and ask them about this.
One comment stated that the road racecars have to be pre-heated before being fired because they are built so tight.
I would not be the least suprised to find that the C6R teams use oil pre-heaters which actually circulate the oil through the system.
Same with the coolant/water.
I may even call Katech (their engine builders) and ask them about this.
What kind of power did the motor make?
Can you see valve train through the oil fill hole? If so look for flow with the engine idling(be careful!)
0.020 bearing clearances?
No wonder you don't trust their oil advice!
I am not sure of your oil pressure when hot. What is it at idle, mid, and high RPM?
No wonder you don't trust their oil advice!
I am not sure of your oil pressure when hot. What is it at idle, mid, and high RPM?
well missed a leading zero there the clearances are roughly .0018-.0020. No external cooler, i drive the car not totally year round and not every day but often, it makes right about 650hp(estimate off new wheel numbers from a retune). it has no form of cat in the exhaust.
when you say adjust my tune for a new tstat i assume you mean to adjust fan points?
when you say adjust my tune for a new tstat i assume you mean to adjust fan points?
well missed a leading zero there the clearances are roughly .0018-.0020. No external cooler, i drive the car not totally year round and not every day but often, it makes right about 650hp(estimate off new wheel numbers from a retune). it has no form of cat in the exhaust.
when you say adjust my tune for a new tstat i assume you mean to adjust fan points?
when you say adjust my tune for a new tstat i assume you mean to adjust fan points?
I do not think it is the oil you are running but the temperature of the oil. I would put a good oil cooler on it, get the temp of the motor to run at 180-190 and run Shell T6 0W40. This sounds like a great motor. I don't think the clearances are to big for this kind of street-able horsepower. Cool everything down and you will be happy. Roger
Originally Posted By: dailydriver
I would not be the least suprised to find that the C6R teams use oil pre-heaters which actually circulate the oil through the system.
Same with the coolant/water.
I may even call Katech (their engine builders) and ask them about this.
Didn't say if it was circulated but I would assume so as well. Said oil and water had to be heated to 160 degrees before it can be fired and was from LGMotorsports (ALMS GT2 cars). We aren't talking about a GT2 engine here but if true, it does show that these blocks need to be tight. Maybe 0.002 is a bit loose but agree with the other posts to try a lower thermostat and oil cooler first for sure.
I would not be the least suprised to find that the C6R teams use oil pre-heaters which actually circulate the oil through the system.
Same with the coolant/water.
I may even call Katech (their engine builders) and ask them about this.
Didn't say if it was circulated but I would assume so as well. Said oil and water had to be heated to 160 degrees before it can be fired and was from LGMotorsports (ALMS GT2 cars). We aren't talking about a GT2 engine here but if true, it does show that these blocks need to be tight. Maybe 0.002 is a bit loose but agree with the other posts to try a lower thermostat and oil cooler first for sure.
Originally Posted By: rennocneb
well missed a leading zero there the clearances are roughly .0018-.0020. No external cooler, i drive the car not totally year round and not every day but often, it makes right about 650hp(estimate off new wheel numbers from a retune). it has no form of cat in the exhaust.
when you say adjust my tune for a new tstat i assume you mean to adjust fan points?
Of course adjust the fan on/off points, but also; your fuel trims, and your timing advance could need to be adjusted as well (to get more power, and avoid an over-rich running fuel dilution issue) IF you get this setup to run much cooler overall with said 160* thermostat and lower fan settings.
LS3s are COOL!!
If my LS1 ever goes completely kaput, or even needs a total rebuild, I would sell the block/parts and just get a warmed-over Mast Motorsports LS3 crate engine/wiring adaptor/etc. to go in it's place!
(That would be plenty enough power for me in an < 3100 lbs. car!!
)
well missed a leading zero there the clearances are roughly .0018-.0020. No external cooler, i drive the car not totally year round and not every day but often, it makes right about 650hp(estimate off new wheel numbers from a retune). it has no form of cat in the exhaust.
when you say adjust my tune for a new tstat i assume you mean to adjust fan points?
Of course adjust the fan on/off points, but also; your fuel trims, and your timing advance could need to be adjusted as well (to get more power, and avoid an over-rich running fuel dilution issue) IF you get this setup to run much cooler overall with said 160* thermostat and lower fan settings.
LS3s are COOL!!
If my LS1 ever goes completely kaput, or even needs a total rebuild, I would sell the block/parts and just get a warmed-over Mast Motorsports LS3 crate engine/wiring adaptor/etc. to go in it's place!
(That would be plenty enough power for me in an < 3100 lbs. car!!
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