Oil Guru Advice

[Jeffs2006EvoIX]

There has been a huge debate of late on the Lancer Evolution forums over oil type and use with certain additives. Mainly ZDDP, Zinc, and Phos.

A link to this arguement is here, and you do not need to be a memeber to read it, I just want you to see it so I don't have to go over everything here.

http://forums.evolutionm.net/evo-engine-...rnal-turbo.html
You will see my replies, as my screen name here is the same as there. I just would like your opinions on this post on this particular forum.

Thanks for your time.

 

[sangyup81]

The OP called Mobil 1 Mobile 1

 

[Jeffs2006EvoIX]

Just seeing if anyone has any input on this post. Where can I find the Data sheets on some of the oils. I have Mobil 1's but what about the others?

 

[dparm]

Such ridiculous reasoning. This is why I don't spend much time on those sites.

 

[river_rat]

Originally Posted By: Jeffs2006EvoIX
Just seeing if anyone has any input on this post. Where can I find the Data sheets on some of the oils. I have Mobil 1's but what about the others?

Websites or email them. What's the concern?
Zinc/Phosphorous? They all have it except a few weird Euro oils that still manage to have excellent wear numbers.

The "Mobile 1" post doesn't seem very legit, to me.

 

[Jeffs2006EvoIX]

The big concern is that the Evo Forums are under the impression of the following:

1) Even though M1 was factory fill, when the mods go on the car, and boost goes up slightly, the evo community feels that the M1 won't hold up. Mind you this is on a stock block and stock turbo. Many have upgraded cams, but mind you the evo does have roller rockers and hydrolic lifters.

2) the oil that went into the evo from the factory was SL rated where as the new M1 is SM rated. evo members feel the new SM means more MPG's and not more anti wear. I dissagree by stating that other additives are increased while ZDDP decreased, like Baron is up and Moly is UP but Zinc is down.

3) evo owners think M1 is a group 3 now. Now I cannot prove if it a group 3 or not, but I look at the MSDS and the pour points and its pretty clear that most of the M1 line is group 4. while the EP line has most likely 4 and 5 mix, as does the HM.

Many Evo owners run a 40 or a 50w oil as well. Which I argue is ridicolous on a stock block and turbo. They feel that the "thicker" oil will protect better or will help with heat better. I keep telling them to come to this site to read up, but they don't.

Its just yeah sure if you have a track dedicated race evo with a built motor with specs that call for a thicker viscosity like a 40 or a 50 by all means, but a daily driver with bolt ons?? I have used a 30w for 30K of the 43K miles on my evo and had no issues (knock on wood). and even in the heat of the summer (120+F where I live) and driving it pretty hard at times, the oil temps are never over 100C in my car. Thanks Mitsubishi for that BIG OL' Oil COOLER!!! So I keep sticking with the 30w.

So what can I tell these folks? Or just not bother and brush them off? I just want people to be educated on the subject so they don't fall victim to buying stuff they really don't need. (oil wise).

 

[chubbs1]

It's hard to change once you have become set in a certain mindset, I always was taught to use heavier weights in all cars, BITOG broke me of that in all but a few cases. Some of those sites are good but a lot of myth and fearmongering go on too.

 

[daman]

Originally Posted By: sangyup81
The OP called Mobil 1 Mobile 1

Cant spell Mobil right but has the b alls to tell people M1 will ruin your engine/turbo,,class act dumb [censored] right there!

 

[bluesubie]

1) I would say that it's likely that any Energy Conserving oil will not hold up once you begin to mod. M1 is the most popular synthetic oil so, of course, it's an easy target when you add high hp. Mod our car, mod your choice of oil! It boggles my mind reading posts on Subaru forums when 400+ hp STI owner's, without a professional tune, complain about problems running EC oils.

2) Are you sure that we were still on SL when the Evo came out? Regardless, as you know, Mobil offers several options that have more AW adds than their EC oils.

3)We just don't know which oils contain which base stocks.
TomNJ showed through Gas Chromatography, that Mobil 1 Extended Performance 5w30 was Group III. An internal XOM document posted on-line showed that they used Group III even in their 0W oils. It was previously thought that you'd need PAO and/or ester base stocks to obtain the 0W cold cranking viscosity. XOM's Group III, Visom changed that. Other than that, who knows? Are PAO base stocks a guarantee that the oil will hold up better??? Don't forget that oil companies are blending III, IV, and V.

That's my

.

-Dennis

 

[dparm]

Then don't use Mobil 1 if you think it can't handle things. I don't see why they're arguing. There's so many oils out there that can handle high-horsepower.

But hey, it's the Internet, and people like to argue...

 

[Jeffs2006EvoIX]

well, I have been piecing together allot about M1 lately. It doesn't surprise me that M1 is Group 3. I mean Pennzoil Ultra is too, go figure. I think Mobil just figured something out in the group 3 process that tops Castrols process from the 90's and the whole Syntec fiasco.

Dave at redline has been very helpful. I am really leaning towards Redline 5/30. I have not ordered Amsoil in quite some time. I like their RD30 oil, but its a full race oil like the RP XPR is. Granted both are "streetable" but I think the Redline has the best Street/track combo.

I have Mobil 1 Extended Performance 10w30 in my car right now. I run 27psi at WOT vs 22 psi stock. I make about 90whp more than stock. I don't push my car too hard, so I think the Mobil 1 Extended Performance is holding up ok. I just want something that will be better for the life of the motor. If I spend a little bit more money to have that piece of mind, it would be worth it.

I just have never used a POE based oil before. I am kinda hesitant to use Redline for that reason. So I am not sure what to do. Whatever I do, I will post on the Evo forums.

 

[dparm]

There is no reason you can't run a POE oil in there.

If you are tired of stressing over it, I suggest you just go for Motul 300V (pretty much top tier oil) and be done with it. You can get it for about $15/qt, sometimes less if you buy in volume.

 

[Ben99GT]

Originally Posted By: Jeffs2006EvoIX
I just have never used a POE based oil before. I am kinda hesitant to use Redline for that reason. So I am not sure what to do. Whatever I do, I will post on the Evo forums.


Why are you hesitant? Red Line is blended with some PAO to keep seal compatibility and cost in check, so I really don't get the worry. If your interested in trying Red Line, do a few oil changes and see how you like it. If you don't like it for whatever reason, go back to Mobil 1.

Look at all of saaber1's data on the VW Tsi. That turbocharged DI engine is notoriously hard on oil and Red Line shines there. I think you are stressing too much over the choice; Red Line 5w30 will serve you well as will Mobil 1 10w30HM, Mobil 1 0W-40, GC 0W-30, and a slew of others.

 

[dparm]

^ Well said. It's not like the motor will grenade from a single change of Redline. Worst thing that happens is you see no improvement.

 

[Jeffs2006EvoIX]

Ive been running the Redline 5w30 for about 800 miles so far (to my tuners disgust) and like it. Less valvetrain noise, less high RPM vibration, and that some people can say come on??? but I run solid poly engine mounts and run Race cams with super stiff Brian Crower Springs in the valvetrain, and when your pushing 8000 RPM, you notice things like that, haha.

So far so good. Will do a used oil analysis at 3K miles to start, then go from there. Not looking to do extended drain intervals with this oil, just want to use the used oil analysis as reference point for future use. I may go 5K miles if the Oil looks to be in good shape after 3K miles. I am sure it will be.

Jeff

 

[Ben99GT]

Originally Posted By: Jeffs2006EvoIX
Less valvetrain noise, less high RPM vibration, and that some people can say come on??? but I run solid poly engine mounts and run Race cams with super stiff Brian Crower Springs in the valvetrain, and when your pushing 8000 RPM, you notice things like that, haha.


I noticed the same, particularly in the Mustang which had poly motor mounts, tubular K and a solid aftermarket (no rag joint) steering shaft. The RL difference was fairly extreme for the better. I noticed similar in the F150 but the difference was less pronounced, but still apparent.

Quote:
So far so good. Will do a used oil analysis at 3K miles to start, then go from there. Not looking to do extended drain intervals with this oil, just want to use the used oil analysis as reference point for future use. I may go 5K miles if the Oil looks to be in good shape after 3K miles. I am sure it will be.


Should be interesting, just don't be alarmed if wear metals go up a bit in the first used oil analysis.

 

[subiedriver]

I would think the Mobil 1 0w-40 would hold up fine, its good enough for twin turbo Porsche's.

 

[wiswind]

There have been posts that the first fill of Redline can give you higher "wear" numbers, and that settles down after a couple changes of Redline.

Internet forums are a great source of information, however, as you have found, there is a lot of opinion out there.
Some folks are going to stick to their opinion regardless of what others tell them.
In fact, I am guilty of that......I do a LOT of reading and form my opinion based upon what I read.
I don't actually fully understand what is going on in my vehicle's crankcase......and can only guess.
I can certainly feel your pain in trying to make the best choice for your vehicle.