Oil Furnace/Tank Questions - Distributor Problems

[Oldswagon]

I have a house that has an oil furnace for it's primary heat source. This is the first winter I have lived in this house and the first time I have had a house with oil heat (I am in a rural area).

I am on an automatic fill with the my Esso. Last week my furnace stopped working and I found out that my tank was empty. Of course this happened on a Sunday night at 11:00 PM. So, I had to get an emergency refill, and due to other complications the driver didn't get to the house until about 2:00 AM. The driver told me that it was Esso's fault, since they tell the drivers when to come and refill the tanks. He told me to call and complain with Esso, and that I should recieve compensation due to it being their mistake.

I called Esso, and they are telling me that it was not their fault because they believed my tank was not empty, and that I had at least 200L in the tank. On refill it only took 683L of oil, and I have a 910L oil tank. Esso's conclusion was that I either gave them the improper size for the tank, or I didn't actually run out of oil. In other words, it's my fault not theirs.

I double checked my oil tank tonight, and it states that it is a 910L tank, so I am sure about the tank size. I did notice that the oil tank guage is not even near full after they filled it, more like 2/3 at most. This was the same the last time they filled it in the fall.

Is it possible that they are not filling my tank full? I know that these gauge are not the most accurate, but can it be off by 1/3 of a tank? It was completely bottomed out when the furnace stopped working, and the tank sounded empty when I knocked on it.

If Esso is right, and I did have 200L of oil left, why would my furnace stop? Why would it not re-start even when I tried to do so manually? And why did the oil delivery driver have to prime the furnace to get it started, and even he stated that there was A TON of air in the lines (it took him quite a while)?

So, if I only have 684L of oil in my 910L tank, Esso is stil going to be estimating my fills based on the 910L capacity, so I do need to get this resolved, or I will run out of oil again, and they will continue to say it is my fault.

Any advice, opinions or input is greatly appreciated.

 

[Gary Allan]

Hmmm...well, you are, for some odd reason, only 683 liters from empty.

I could see it if the bottom third of your tank was full of sludge. It would funnel down to the outlet on the bottom (it would slope ..not fill the tank evenly across the bottom). This would not fool your gauge ..and would be highly unlikely. This leads me to the vent pipe "depth". Unscrew this pipe from the tank and see if there's anything special to it ..as in it not just fitting up to the tank ..but having something extend into the interior of the tank. There's not much else that I can think of that would prevent the tank from being filled.

 

[doitmyself]

Have you seen the movie called "The Money Pit" with Tom Hanks?

What kind of compensation are you talking about here? Was there extra charges for the emergency delivery? The driver probably appreciated being out at 2am Sunday night also.

How do "they" know how fast your oil is depleted and when it requires refilling? Curious about this. Going below 1/3 or so invites condensation, etc..

I had a similar experience my first winter in our first house in the "U.P.". It was an outdoor tank and it managed to take in some WATER.

Maybe the previous owner had a gauge installed that was for a diffent size tank - they come in different "sizes" for different tanks. You need to verify GAUGE ACCURACY before you can go after them. And, GAUGE FUNCTIONING (sticking/broken).

Take a clean stick, dip it into the tank and read it like a car oil dipstick to verify if the gauge matches the tank level. Should have done this when the problem occurred "empty and full". Unless, you are an excellent "tank sounder".

You could have had a CLOGGED FILTER that "unclogged" itself after the fill.

I suppose a dishonest driver or an mis-calibrated truck could create a diference in delivered amount and receipt/written amount.

Interesting delemma. Keep us posted.

 

[Gary Allan]

They have pretty accurate software that will take the ambient temp into account in calculating your fill date. We were running very close ..and my oil man showed up just as I was calling him. They've worked on this for a while to allow the maximum profit for the time spent without interruptions in service. Nobody wants to be humping delivery all day and then get called out in the middle of the night (it always occurs in the middle of the night).

 

[Oldswagon]

The tank is a 2002 model year, and passed inspection during the sale of the house. It has a new filter installed as of Decemeber of this year, and the furnace was also tuned at the time. I should note that this tank supposedly has an whistle that prevents it from being overfilled. According to the Esso rep, this is how they know the tank is filled. The tank is mounted indoors in a crawl space area, and is somewhat hard to access.

I should clarify that I was in no way upset with the driver, and I appoligized to him that night for having to wake him up. He told me that it was Esso's fault and that I should get some compensation, I didn't even bring it up.

My concern right now isn't so much any compensation. I am more concern with the fact that Esso is going to continue to estimate that I have 910L of oil when I actually have 683L, and so I will run out again. I still think my tank is not being fully filled, and I need to prove this somehow to Esso.

Unless of course Esso is correct, and my tank did have 200L of oil left in it when my furnace stopped. But that just makes no sense to me, since I don't understand why the furnace would stop, and how all the air got in the lines. The driver also seemed pretty coninced it was bone dry.

Thanks for the advice so far, it is much appreciated.

 

[Al]

Maybe things are different where you are. But if that happened to me I would calmly explain the situation to them and tell them very politely I was going with another supplier if they didn't fix the problem. (I have done that to my previous supplier of propane)

 

[ryansride2017]

I would have them come back out and attempt to fill the tank the rest of the way...and I would be present for the delivery to make observations. Perhaps you have some sort of problem (air not being allowed to evacuate from tank) while it is being refilled. The oil company has no interest in not filling your oil tank until it is full. While automatic delivery is a valuable service, ultimately it is the homeowner's responsiblility to periodically check their oil level (particularly in this time of the year).

 

[eljefino]

There's a whistle in the tank's vent pipe that alerts the driver when the tank is full. (It stops whistling when it gets clogged with fuel oil.) Maybe this device is too low in the tank?

They estimate fuel fills based on "heating degree days" which is a multiplier of degrees below room temperature over time.

 

[Gary Allan]

Quote:

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There's a whistle in the tank's vent pipe that alerts the driver when the tank is full. (It stops whistling when it gets clogged with fuel oil.) Maybe this device is too low in the tank?

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That was my thought. Perhaps a perforated "still well" to prevent the surging of entering fuel from prematurely having the whistle stop or putting back pressure on the tank. If those holes clogged, the whistling would stop where ever the submerged extension terminated ..probably way deeper in the tank.


I was figuring this was a conventional installation. Naturally (it's never that easy) it's in a crawl space and hard to access

Otherwise, a decent pipe wrench ..and he'd have this situation fixed ..or at least determine who's FOS.

 

[doitmyself]

Gary and Eljefino - interesting stuff (I have natural gas).

I know all about degree days and that they might even evaluate the house for heat loss (insulation,etc.).

How do they calculate for different lifestyles. An old couple might keep the thermostat cranked at 74 F 24/7 and let the door stay open every time they let fido out. A conservative guy might turn the thermostat down to 58F 16 hours a day or whatever.

Seems no matter what I do, my bill just keeps going up. Lately they seem to charge for lots of extras - line charges, Hooters girl to read meter, etc..

 

[Oldswagon]

I got a call back from Esso today, and I think I resolved the problem. Esso contacted my local distributor to confirm my tank size. Sure enough, they had provided the correct information to Esso about the tank size, except they forgot one detail. My tank is mounted on its side, which, according the the Esso rep, means it cannot be filled nearly as full, hence the reason why my gauge is never near full after a fill up. So they are adjusting my account so my tank size at 680L instead of the 900L they were using.

So, now they finally admitted that it wasn't my fault, but they are saying that it was the distributor's fault for not providing all the information (or so they say). The case is being investigated again, and they will determine if this is an actual no oil situation. If it is, they tell me that I should receive some compensation, since they guarantee that I won't run out of oil.

The biggest relief is that I shouldn't run out of oil again.

 

[Gary Allan]

Quote:

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How do they calculate for different lifestyles. An old couple might keep the thermostat cranked at 74 F 24/7 and let the door stay open every time they let fido out. A conservative guy might turn the thermostat down to 58F 16 hours a day or whatever.

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I'm not sure. I assume that the conservative guy would end up being filled with more in his tank ..the older couple with less. That data then gets fed into the software and I think it recalculates. All my bills have the deliveries listed ..gallons and date ..back to the previous year.

They don't figure it to 1 gallon from empty

I don't have a contract with my oil man ..I'm just on "automatic". I do have a year prepaid ..except I'm not "prepaid" ..I just have a positive balance on his books. If he goofs ..he just has the annoyance of coming out at 2am (you see, it always happens at 2am).


Oldswagon

Figures no one here integrated that crawlspace meant the tank was on its side.

I'm even having a hard time figuring how it gets anywhere over half full. If it's a vertical tank put on its side ..half full is the best you can get ..or so I reason. If it's a horizontal tank ..then it should have the ports on the flat side that should allow it to fill up 100% ..or so I figure.

Here's how a horizontal tank is supposed to be ported. pdf warning

Ehhh ..well at least you're not going to run out now.

 

[Cogito]

How much extra money are we talking about for the emergency fill?

 

[Oldswagon]

Quote:

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Oldswagon

Figures no one here integrated that crawlspace meant the tank was on its side.

I'm even having a hard time figuring how it gets anywhere over half full. If it's a vertical tank put on its side ..half full is the best you can get ..or so I reason. If it's a horizontal tank ..then it should have the ports on the flat side that should allow it to fill up 100% ..or so I figure.

Here's how a horizontal tank is supposed to be ported. pdf warning

Ehhh ..well at least you're not going to run out now.

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I had no idea that the way a tank was mounted made any difference at all, which is why I didn't mention it initially. I am new to oil, so I am not the most knowledgable person on this subject.

I don't know if this was a vertical tank laying on it's side, or if it is a horizontal tank. All the pipes screw into the top of the tank in the centre, and the outlet, is on the lower front edge in the centre. So it seems like the fittings are in the correct place for a horizontal position.

So far, I am going only on the word of the Esso rep, and I am not sure how knowledgable he is. The next time I am in the city I may drop by the distributor and have talk with him to get the real story. The distributor is MUCH better to deal with then Esso.

 

[Gary Allan]

Quote:

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How much extra money are we talking about for the emergency fill?

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The last time I had one ..many years ago ..it was $30 additional. That was when heating oil was $0.85/gallon. I've run out since ..in the summer (in boiler heat exchanger) ..but then, at worst, go down and buy 5 gallons of diesel so the wife will stop yelling at me about her shower. I'm installing an in line off peak electric hot water heater to eliminate that situation this Spring.

I'm somewhat concerned over the long term future of home heating with oil ..at least in the US. Every industrial boiler has FGR (flue gas recirculation) to reduce NOX emissions. I can just see it being announced that any new systems will have this feature ..and shortly after that ..retro fitting to existing systems. Naturally, it will manifest itself as "I'm sorry Mr. Allan, but your system cannot accept the $25 kit that just about everyone else in the universe can use ..so we have to sell you an entire $3000 system. Normally it would be only $3000 ..but since you have a steam boiler you get an extra boning from us that we're happy to say isn't free of charge

".

The story of my life. I'm always in the exact spot in time and space to get all the unfavorable "exceptions".