photo of the API donut showing certification would be a great sales approach
Quote:
A good diesel oil should fit the bill.
Oil for flat tappet racing engine...
- Thread starter FastFox
- Start date
- Status
Fastfox,
See if there is anyone producing tool steel lifters for your application. The wear characteristics in addition to proper radius of the head of the lifter is the key.
Try to contact a guy name Brian b.
http://www.dpwferreavalves.com/
he makes tool steel lifters for certain applications
heres a link to some info on his stuff
http://speedtalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2032&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=15
I'm currenly using a German made tool steel lifter made with tool steel. Mind you I was running a 276degree cam @ .050 in my 2332cc type 1 aircooled VW engine. Chevy valvetrain aprox 150lbs at the seat and aprox 360 pressure at the nose of the cam. Many years ago a German company made lifters that lived through ---- with tool steel and as of recent they've recently been re-introduced due to the flat tappet issues.
Monitor your oil temps after the 1/4 mile run. See if the oil is excessively hot or NOT. This will help you choose the proper viscosity for your application. Starting the engine just before the starting line and at the end of the 1/4 will heat the oil but if the temp doesnt get excessively hot you may find a thinner oil (at op temps) may provide good oil pressure (aprox 10psi per 1000rpms) and give you excellent flow through your bearings. Using thick oil blindly without considering oil clearance between the bearing/journals may infact damage the engine rather than lubricating it.
People are pimping Brad Penn oil these days but as long as you have high zinc content in the oil its gonna help you reduce the wear.
Do you do cam/lifter swaps once a year??
See if there is anyone producing tool steel lifters for your application. The wear characteristics in addition to proper radius of the head of the lifter is the key.
Try to contact a guy name Brian b.
http://www.dpwferreavalves.com/
he makes tool steel lifters for certain applications
heres a link to some info on his stuff
http://speedtalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2032&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=15
I'm currenly using a German made tool steel lifter made with tool steel. Mind you I was running a 276degree cam @ .050 in my 2332cc type 1 aircooled VW engine. Chevy valvetrain aprox 150lbs at the seat and aprox 360 pressure at the nose of the cam. Many years ago a German company made lifters that lived through ---- with tool steel and as of recent they've recently been re-introduced due to the flat tappet issues.
Monitor your oil temps after the 1/4 mile run. See if the oil is excessively hot or NOT. This will help you choose the proper viscosity for your application. Starting the engine just before the starting line and at the end of the 1/4 will heat the oil but if the temp doesnt get excessively hot you may find a thinner oil (at op temps) may provide good oil pressure (aprox 10psi per 1000rpms) and give you excellent flow through your bearings. Using thick oil blindly without considering oil clearance between the bearing/journals may infact damage the engine rather than lubricating it.
People are pimping Brad Penn oil these days but as long as you have high zinc content in the oil its gonna help you reduce the wear.
Do you do cam/lifter swaps once a year??
Amsoil AMO 10w40...
could we see the API Certification Donut Label on that, before we trust our expensive engines on it?
WHY IS API CERTIFICATION SO IMPORTANT FOR A FLAT-TAPPET RACING ENGINE?
Amsoil has never used API standards to manufacture lubricants.
this is because API standards are the minimum requirement the oil has to pass to be certified.
Amsoil was first to exceed all API certifications as a synthetic motor oil, and still exceeds all API requirements.
35 years of advertised oil comparisons have proven Amsoil to be one of the smartest choices of lubricants one can use.
works good in all my vehicles including my flat tappet 351W
In 30 years, I have never seen a published certified INDEPENDENT lab report confirming any of the claims above.Quote:
Amsoil has never used API standards to manufacture lubricants.
this is because API standards are the minimum requirement the oil has to pass to be certified.
Amsoil was first to exceed all API certifications as a synthetic motor oil, and still exceeds all API requirements.
35 years of advertised oil comparisons have proven Amsoil to be one of the smartest choices of lubricants one can use.
works good in all my vehicles including my flat tappet 351W
This is not an Amsoil issue. It is about the big guy versus the little guy...If you need API certification, then that is fine...do whatever you wanna do!...I however realize that smaller companies don't have the capital to pay for certifition test and R&D...so R&D gets the nod and certification is exceeded but not officially doucumented...but since Avanti thinks it their duty to respond in red ink like they are my English teacher or something... I will go ahead and recommend Amsoil XLO 10w-40...this oil has a HTHS of 4.3...a flash point of 453F...VI index of 160...and guess what...it is API certified...
API certification is expensive...something like $500000 for API seal on bottle...royalty fee for every gallon of oil over a million sold!
API certification is expensive...something like $500000 for API seal on bottle...royalty fee for every gallon of oil over a million sold!
Let me see if I have this logic correct:
1) API requires oil manufacturers to lower their P (and corresponding Zn) levels.
2) API certified oil "causes" excessive drive train wear.
3) Customers don't want API oil, they want older style high SAPS oil to "protect" upper end.
4) Customer wants API certification.
Now I know as much as the next bloke this is oversimplified, but I have been in this gig for about 10 years, plus 30+ in related fields, and I don't really remember seeing Amsoil chewing the shiite out of anyone's cam. I just grabbed one UOA, but this guy is not going gentle on his expensive engine:
AMO 10W-40 UOA
I doubt F1 or many other specialized motor oils are API. I know Redline isn't. Nor is RLI. All these oils protect very well. So somehow, Amsoil doesn't and hasn't for over 30 years. Interesting. Let's just put it this way. API is NOT important for a flat tappet racing engine.
Avanti read this...
http://www.amsoil.com/dealer/askamsoil/api_licensing/api_licensing.aspx
Let us agree to disagree if you still need API cert
http://www.amsoil.com/dealer/askamsoil/api_licensing/api_licensing.aspx
Let us agree to disagree if you still need API cert
Lest we forget, the main point is, has been, and will always be for me:
If the API certification independent lab is not used, that still does not explain that in 30 years, I have never seen a published certified INDEPENDENT lab report confirming any of the claims that are made.
If the API certification independent lab is not used, that still does not explain that in 30 years, I have never seen a published certified INDEPENDENT lab report confirming any of the claims that are made.
Quote:
Avanti read this...
http://www.amsoil.com/dealer/askamsoil/api_licensing/api_licensing.aspx
Let us agree to disagree if you still need API cert
Quote:
Lest we forget, the main point is, has been, and will always be for me:
If the API certification independent lab is not used, that still does not explain that in 30 years, I have never seen a published certified INDEPENDENT lab report confirming any of the claims that are made.
Quote:
Avanti read this...
http://www.amsoil.com/dealer/askamsoil/api_licensing/api_licensing.aspx
Let us agree to disagree if you still need API cert
So all oil you use must have this? Does Redline, Royal Purple, Mobil, Castrol, SOPUS, etc have papers to your satisfaction for ALL their claims or is this just an Amsoil thing?
The claims that the XL products are API certified, are these made up? The ASL and ATM (and others) tested at SWRI on industry accepted calibrated equipment by trained independent technicians - I suppose this was dry labbed?
If you notice the recent spat was about Avanti's pushing API spec...thank A11ah he is not responding in red font...I can't figure out how to type in color...
Anyways I have decided that Amsoil AMO, Valvoline VR1, and quite possibly Syntec 20w50 are good choices for those who don't want to use HDEO in a flat-tapper...
Anyways I have decided that Amsoil AMO, Valvoline VR1, and quite possibly Syntec 20w50 are good choices for those who don't want to use HDEO in a flat-tapper...
some data is in the charts at the end of my write-up. go to:
http://sterkel.org/avanti/documents/oil_series_for_classic_cars.htm
then click on
"Virgin Oil Analyses (VOA) for some CI-4/SM Oils, and Popular Additives"
http://sterkel.org/avanti/documents/oil_series_for_classic_cars.htm
then click on
"Virgin Oil Analyses (VOA) for some CI-4/SM Oils, and Popular Additives"
- Status