Oil exploration teams (BP) taking a big hit.

When will all plastics (like all the PPE the medical folks use) be made out of solar energy? Clothing? Auto parts? Electronics?
Heck, when will the solar panels themselves be made out of solar energy?

Cheers!!!
I was waiting for this post and have already addressed your straw man argument previously. Please reread my original post for context.

Your argument doesn't fly when you consider that I stated that it would be silly to think that all petroleum based energy production is going to go away. I went on to say that it will stay around but just become a smaller and smaller part of the overall market. And this situation will be driven by market forces and the relative inexpensive nature of renewable energy.

Cheers!!!
 
I think the original article has some false conclusions, as well. Oil exploration has become ever more automated and now uses ever more sophisticated computer modeling and super computing to locate oil reserves. They can do more with less man power than ever before.
 
When will all plastics (like all the PPE the medical folks use) be made out of solar energy? Clothing? Auto parts? Electronics?
Heck, when will the solar panels themselves be made out of solar energy?

Cheers!!!
Nobody I know stated that these things would be made from solar energy. Where did you get that idea?

Cheers!!!
 
The debate can surely lean power generation & electric consumption
Well, our utility room is really part of the garage … not on main HVAC …
Has an old 220v motel style AC/heater unit. 39F this am and it was a bit chilly …
Turned on the heat and that unit has quit heating. Found a plug in heater. Total joke …

Wait, there’s an old NG/ceramic heater still on wall … starter lit pilot … swoosh ! she’s cherry red …
Man, the heat quickly ran me out of the room. Hard to beat NG … we use it on 80% of appliances …
 
Read an article recently discussing the future impact of moving away from fossil fuels to alternatives such as wind, solar including needed battery storage when supply of electricity varies. The economic impacts, as well as the sheer number of jobs lost is tremendous, and not well thought out by all parties pushing for these changes. Also noted was the amount of fossil fuels that are involved with some of the equipment (windmilll parts, batteries, etc.) needed to produce alternative fuels.

Even if these impacts were wildly overstated by that article, the true economic and unemployment impacts will be majorly significant.
I think this is why it needs to happen at a pace driven by market forces and technology …
The wind turbines near me are 3x more productive than what we had just a few years back - meaning older operations could be upgraded rather than eat up more new infrastructure and capital etc …
Same with transportation …
As older kit gets replaced it’s almost always cleaner/leaner/meaner/greener

 
I think this is why it needs to happen at a pace driven by market forces and technology …
The wind turbines near me are 3x more productive than what we had just a few years back - meaning older operations could be upgraded rather than eat up more new infrastructure and capital etc …
Same with transportation …
As older kit gets replaced it’s almost always cleaner/leaner/meaner/greener


Are they more productive because they are three times the size?

This is the problem we have with wind in Ontario:
Screen Shot 2019-07-24 at 7.55.38 PM.png


It produces grossly out of phase with demand. It is most productive in the spring/fall, when demand is the lowest and least productive in the summer, followed by mid winter. CF for January has been ~20% so far. Summer CF is ~13% with large periods of time that can look like the above where it provides next to zero useful generation.

Getting more into the nuance, when it is extremely hot, it is almost always extremely still, so when AC demand takes load into peaker territory, wind is AWOL. A Capacity Value analysis has pegged wind at close to 0% in this province.

Now of course that won't apply everywhere but unless somebody is actually putting in the effort to track it the wrong conclusions can easily be arrived at. Wind produced 11TWh in 2020 in Ontario, ~90% of that would have been exported. If you didn't know that fact you'd have assumed that the 11TWh displaced gas, but that was not the case. Most of that was produced when we had zero use for the power, so it was dumped at $0.014/kWh to the US.

Now, if your baseload supply is fossil, then yes, wind has the potential to displace some emissions there (ignoring that fast-ramp plants are more emissions intense than 100% baseload operation) but if you have clean baseload, wind is an exercise in idiocy, as it will increase emissions intensity necessarily with the addition of standby gasgen.
 
Internal combustion engines are just archaic. Aside from guzzling fuel. It's time to evolve.

Granted, there doesn't seem to be anywhere near a perfect solution. Lithium mining itself is a nasty, downright disturbing process. But don't ignore that oil exploration can be just as bad. And coal mining? Wow.

I believe we're not ready, there's nowhere near an adequate foundation for a 'green' world. But, on the other hand, if we don't start pushing for this in some small way, it'll never happen. We need to 'fuel' demand and/or supply of green tech to get it off the ground. Fuel demand, supply can step up without risk of losing investment. Fuel supply, price drops, adaptation follows.

Folks that try and discredit evolving technology just because it's not all-encompassing or doesn't work for some example are being very narrow minded. You take advancement where you can and build on it.
 
Internal combustion engines are just archaic. Aside from guzzling fuel. It's time to evolve.

Granted, there doesn't seem to be anywhere near a perfect solution. Lithium mining itself is a nasty, downright disturbing process. But don't ignore that oil exploration can be just as bad. And coal mining? Wow.

I believe we're not ready, there's nowhere near an adequate foundation for a 'green' world. But, on the other hand, if we don't start pushing for this in some small way, it'll never happen. We need to 'fuel' demand and/or supply of green tech to get it off the ground. Fuel demand, supply can step up without risk of losing investment. Fuel supply, price drops, adaptation follows.

Folks that try and discredit evolving technology just because it's not all-encompassing or doesn't work for some example are being very narrow minded. You take advancement where you can and build on it.
Don't assume skeptics are automatically Luddites. We're not. Most of us just want policy makers, industry and individuals to make decisions with a more complete grasp of the facts, and not to substitute the information they lack with wishful thinking; we also don't want policy to be based on false Chicken Little paranoia.

Electrified vehicles are great within a range of parameters, but if we want to get to a majority electric fleet in the US, we would either have to more than double the capacity of our current power generation and distribution grid, or we prevent most people from driving altogether. Since there is no credible effort to actually increase power generation, suspicious and cynical people like me think that the second option is what a lot of people on one side of the argument would actually prefer. No thanks.
 
Folks that try and discredit evolving technology just because it's not all-encompassing or doesn't work for some example are being very narrow minded. You take advancement where you can and build on it.

Wind and PV aren't rapidly evolving technologies, they've been around a very long time, wind power long, LONG before we started using fossil fuels. Wind power was replaced with fossil fuels for the same reason it currently needs gas backup: it is horribly unreliable. Yes, wind is cheap to construct, but CAPEX doesn't capture value or ancillary CAPEX/OPEX of the systems necessary to make it work, which are significant. An idling fleet of gas plants isn't free nor are they green.

What is needed is a consistent supply of always available energy to properly power an electrified economy. Quebec has done it with Hydro-Electric and France and Ontario have done it with a combination of nuclear and hydro. There's actually a track record of success on this front, we aren't trying to do something that hasn't been done before, we have proven to be able to create ultra-low emissions grids, the problem is that the fad right now is to try to do it with sources that lack the ability, so the approach has been the advocacy toward producing some insane rube-Goldberg scenario and claiming that it will work, you just need to over-build by insane amounts, install unrealistic levels of storage and then you won't need the gas backup as much.

I'm all for electrification and the elimination of fossil fuels as much as reasonably possible.
- Nuclear powered freighters
- Nuclear power for baseload where hydro can't work
- Solar at limited penetrations with moderate storage to replace gas peakers (level must be limited to not displace ULE baseload)
- Wind where it can actually be demonstrated to provide power that is in alignment with demand
- District heating using waste nuclear heat
- Hydrogen production from nuclear plant excess capacity
- Desalination from nuclear waste heat

Use the most appropriate source for the task. The goal needs to be reduction in emissions and the use of fossil fuels not just high levels of wind and solar because that's what a specific group wants.
 
Are they more productive because they are three times the size?

This is the problem we have with wind in Ontario:
View attachment 43021

It produces grossly out of phase with demand. It is most productive in the spring/fall, when demand is the lowest and least productive in the summer, followed by mid winter. CF for January has been ~20% so far. Summer CF is ~13% with large periods of time that can look like the above where it provides next to zero useful generation.

Getting more into the nuance, when it is extremely hot, it is almost always extremely still, so when AC demand takes load into peaker territory, wind is AWOL. A Capacity Value analysis has pegged wind at close to 0% in this province.

Now of course that won't apply everywhere but unless somebody is actually putting in the effort to track it the wrong conclusions can easily be arrived at. Wind produced 11TWh in 2020 in Ontario, ~90% of that would have been exported. If you didn't know that fact you'd have assumed that the 11TWh displaced gas, but that was not the case. Most of that was produced when we had zero use for the power, so it was dumped at $0.014/kWh to the US.

Now, if your baseload supply is fossil, then yes, wind has the potential to displace some emissions there (ignoring that fast-ramp plants are more emissions intense than 100% baseload operation) but if you have clean baseload, wind is an exercise in idiocy, as it will increase emissions intensity necessarily with the addition of standby gasgen.
They are noticeably larger but not 3x or even 2x … Pretty wicked 3D blade designs on these …
Owners have put them near the GoM with assumptions of ocean breezes … we are known for very windy springtime weather but IMO - by late summer there will be a few days the “fans” will stall. This time of year it’s a mix of north winds and 359 other azimuthal possibilities 👀
There are GTG’s in the region … but the nuclear plant is not for us (heavy lines to large cities) …
 
Chevron has been touting the fact that they are a energy company and not just a oil company. The oil companies will have to adapt to the changing times.
 
They are noticeably larger but not 3x or even 2x … Pretty wicked 3D blade designs on these …
Owners have put them near the GoM with assumptions of ocean breezes … we are known for very windy springtime weather but IMO - by late summer there will be a few days the “fans” will stall. This time of year it’s a mix of north winds and 359 other azimuthal possibilities 👀
There are GTG’s in the region … but the nuclear plant is not for us (heavy lines to large cities) …

Would be interesting to see wind output graphed in your region.
 
Chevron has been touting the fact that they are a energy company and not just a oil company. The oil companies will have to adapt to the changing times.

Who do you think owns most of the wind farms in Ontario? The fossil fuel companies, many of them invested in gas or gas infrastructure, it's a natural fit, even Shell says so:


Shell said:

The role of natural gas​

Providing more energy to people while reducing its impact on the planet is one of the 21st century’s greatest challenges.

Natural gas can help to meet that challenge by reducing emissions and improving air quality when it replaces coal and diesel.

Gas is also a reliable partner for renewable energy sources; providing critical support for wind, solar and hydroelectricity by helping to match supply and demand.

Natural gas is also vital in parts of the economy that are more difficult to electrify, including industrial processes and freight transport.

Another article:
 
Over the last 30 years governments have pushed hard for the development of alternate energy. Thirty years ago fossil fuels accounted for 80% of energy consumption. Today, after billions spent, fossil fuels account for 80% of energy consumption.
President Biden just signed an executive order, promising. As a result, the creation of more jobs in the green energy sector. I tried to type this while displaying my serious face... buuuut.... I can't. I'd be bursting in laughter, except, it's sad that more bad news is coming down the pipe. And this is just January 2021.

Is it nuclear or nukelar? How do you say it correctly? It's sure as scheiße that's not going to be wind farms, rainbow unicorn pharts, cold fusion energy, or laser beams fired at oceanic saltwater that will power our future :ROFLMAO:.
 
I think the original article has some false conclusions, as well. Oil exploration has become ever more automated and now uses ever more sophisticated computer modeling and super computing to locate oil reserves. They can do more with less man power than ever before.
And because of horizontal drilling … production can be on a much smaller footprint. The well heads can be clustered together - whilst the subsurface well bores fan out in all directions …
 
Internal combustion engines are just archaic. Aside from guzzling fuel. It's time to evolve.

Granted, there doesn't seem to be anywhere near a perfect solution. Lithium mining itself is a nasty, downright disturbing process. But don't ignore that oil exploration can be just as bad. And coal mining? Wow!
If you want reliable, non-fossil based energy you have two choices: Nuclear and Hydro. The wind doesn't always blow and the sun doesn't always shine. And there is nothing that can be done to change that. If you find a way, let me know.
 
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