Oil change intervals motorcycle vs car

[Grant31781]

The new KTM 690 has an extended the oil change interval. How can 1.8 quarts of oil last 9300 miles in a shared sump motorcycle engine when 5 quarts of oil needs to be changes from a car engine within 10,000 miles. The car care nut for Toyota says those changes should be 5000 miles as most driving conditions are not suitable for 10K changes. My KLX300 calls for 7500 mile changes with a capacity of 1.2 quarts.

 

[Oillover]

Not surprising.
Most manufacturers recommend extended OCI's to save the prospective customer $$ and time.
In the long run, it ends up costing the owner a new motor/rebuild.

Choose wisely.

 

[dubber09]

When I had my Yamaha YZF600R I changed oil every 2500 miles and it saw easy life, no racing etc. It was a bit of a pain having to take faring off to get to oil filter and drain plug.

 

[DukeOfFrontenac]

Longtime KTM owner here. Don't do those 9,300 OCIs. I been doing 2,500 miles on my street 1290s and 9 hours runtime on the off-road bikes for trail riding duty, every race when I raced them.

Even with 'good' oil the shift quality is typically sh*t by 2,500 miles. The dirt bikes hold not much more than a quart and regularly get revved to the moon and heated to brutal temps. I've never had major engine failures even with supposedly unreliable models.

 

[maraakate]

I'd say the advantage (?) of these shared sump high revvers is that they will teach you to check your oil and change it often if you value keeping it around. When that shift quality degrades you know it's time.

 

[Ride_Red]

My Honda NC700x (parallel twin) would go a full 8K mile oil change and the oil drained clean. Shift feel was the same before and after an oil change. On my Honda ST1300 (V4), I would typically go 5-6K miles (8K recommended by Honda) and the oil was quite dark, but shift feel was fine. On my Honda Africa Twin 1100 (parallel twin), I'm at almost 8K miles on the current oil (Mobil 1 Racing 4T 10W-40) and it's running and shifting great and the oil still looks clean (I plan on changing it in the spring).

All these engines are relatively low RPM, lower HP output engines than other brands. Owners on the Honda forums are running the full 8K miles on their oil without any issues.

KTM's engines, on the other hand, are generally designed and tuned for maximum output and performance. I would err on the side of more conservative oil change intervals for a KTM.

 

[Hermann]

I'm a little leery about 6K OCI's on the new Beemer. I might do 4K.
After 1400 miles since first service the oil in the sight glass is quite dark. The bike is rarely flogged, but goes through a lot of heat cycles. Rarely ride more than 35 miles per heat cycle.

 

[fozzdesy2001]

The new KTM 690 has an extended the oil change interval. How can 1.8 quarts of oil last 9300 miles in a shared sump motorcycle engine when 5 quarts of oil needs to be changes from a car engine within 10,000 miles. The car care nut for Toyota says those changes should be 5000 miles as most driving conditions are not suitable for 10K changes. My KLX300 calls for 7500 mile changes with a capacity of 1.2 quarts.

How much is 2 quarts of really good oil? I do not like long oil change intervals, 3 times a year, minimum, works for cars.

 

[Bonz]

I look at remaining viscosity at whatever point the oil is sampled. Weather it's sampled at a change or part way through. The oils I've posted on here for my ZRX 1200 typically keep grade and all provide very similar wear numbers in 5,000+/- mile oci's.

 

[KrisZ]

Not surprising.
Most manufacturers recommend extended OCI's to save the prospective customer $$ and time.
In the long run, it ends up costing the owner a new motor/rebuild.

Choose wisely.

I would say they do it to prove the illusion of low maintenance costs. Automakers are guilty of doing the exact same thing, the difference with cars is that their warranties are much longer than motorcycle warranties, so generally speaking the maintenance costs for the first 100k miles on cars can be super low if one trades in their vehicle right around this mileage.

Motorcycles tend to have super low miles when compared to cars, so most people run out of the warranty with time, not mileage, therefore running costs are low as well. Not sure what sane person would want to "save" money on maintenance with such low operation.

 

[BusyLittleShop]

Not surprising.
Most manufacturers recommend extended OCI's to save the prospective customer $$ and time.
In the long run, it ends up costing the owner a new motor/rebuild.

Manufactures know the darker the owners oil the stronger the urge for an
oil change... but a Nissan owner defiantly fought the urge and ran
the same 30 grade oil for 122,000 miles... Blackstone labs tested the
oil and gave it more favorable remarks than negative given its
service... the 30 grade viscosity oil was not shear down to a 20 grade
as feared but the actual viscosity tested up more like a 40 grade...
so you might feel relief that missing an oil change interval is not
cause for alarm... Your engine will still meet and exceed your mileage
expectations...

 

[Oliveoil2]

Manufactures know the darker the owners oil the stronger the urge for an
oil change... but a Nissan owner defiantly fought the urge and ran
the same 30 grade oil for 122,000 miles... Blackstone labs tested the
oil and gave it more favorable remarks than negative given its
service... the 30 grade viscosity oil was not shear down to a 20 grade
as feared but the actual viscosity tested up more like a 40 grade...
so you might feel relief that missing an oil change interval is not
cause for alarm... Your engine will still meet and exceed your mileage
expectations...

View attachment 315698

Ouch!

 

[JunkdrawerDog]

I used to change as soon as the shift quality begins to deteriorate. Who wants notchy shifting, right? This was usually at a fraction of the mileage recommended by the manufacturer.

 

[jeff78]

The new KTM 690 has an extended the oil change interval. How can 1.8 quarts of oil last 9300 miles in a shared sump motorcycle engine when 5 quarts of oil needs to be changes from a car engine within 10,000 miles.

Because KTM wants you to buy a new bike every 10,000 miles. Haven't you been reading the news? They need the cash.

Oil is cheap insurance. No engine has ever been damaged from changing the oil too often. Ignore that 120,000 mile outlier that the BLS AI posted above, that's a 2.5 headed unicorn.

 

[Bonz]

I used to change as soon as the shift quality begins to deteriorate. Who wants notchy shifting, right? This was usually at a fraction of the mileage recommended by the manufacturer.

With motorcycles, and a shared sump, the brand and type of oil makes a major difference with respect to shifting quality and when it falls off.

Good synthetic oil (Mobil 1, Redline, Amsoil are ones I have used) hold shift quality for 5,000 MI plus or minus every time without fail.

When shift quality is falling for you at a fraction of the mileage recommended by the manufacturer what oil are you using? Is it regular street riding or track days, interested in the conditions and if it's a street bike or a dirt bike.

 

[cci]

Because KTM wants you to buy a new bike every 10,000 miles. Haven't you been reading the news? They need the cash.

Oil is cheap insurance. No engine has ever been damaged from changing the oil too often. Ignore that 120,000 mile outlier that the BLS AI posted above, that's a 2.5 headed unicorn.

Words to live by.
My engine building experience is mostly with old Harleys, but the principles can't be that different. I have disassembled high mileage engines that were not abused and the oil was changed like Chicago voting in the old days (early and often.) The components showed little and sometimes no scoring, pitting, or damage of any kind other than the fit at the crankpin was twice the service wear limit and the piston to cylinder clearance and valve stem to guide clearance was about four times the service wear limit. Not damaged, just worn out.
OTOH using cheap oil, not changing oil at a reasonable interval, or machines that were beaten up (mostly high revs on cold start and shock loading) those engines show serious damage at low mileage. With enough experience you can pull the engine apart and discern the rider's habits.
Considering that there is not much in that engine that costs any less than the oil and filters, and considering how little oil we're typically using, it has always seemed misplaced to try to save money there.
And I'm not advocating for wasteful spending -- I put a bypass filter in my C12 Caterpillar engine, did oil analysis, and didn't change the oil any more often than necessary.

 

[Overfill]

I think the old rule-of-thumb I use is when you go through enough gas to equate to 200 times your oil sump.

So =200*[qts in sump]/4*mpg

 

[Bonz]

200 X 3.5 qts =700. 700 ÷4 = 175.

175 × 50 = 8,750 miles

I don't mind stretching an oil change but that's getting a bit much, imo.

From a math perspective, the formula that you wrote would be 200 x 3.5 in the numerator, then divide that by the product of 4 x mpg in the denominator. Which is 700/200 or 700÷200 = 3.5.

 

[Panda87]

I did 20,000mi on HPL in my HD 114” engine which holds 4qts. Running it for 30,000mi this go around. Filter changes every 10,000mi. It held up well enough to encourage the 30,000mi run.

 

[Bonz]

I did 20,000mi on HPL in my HD 114” engine which holds 4qts. Running it for 30,000mi this go around. Filter changes every 10,000mi. It held up well enough to encourage the 30,000mi run.

Good stuff. To say it held up well, did you do an analysis that could be posted?