Oil analysis question

[Dark Jedi]

first off sorry if I posted this in the wrong section. dont know where to post it. so sorry ahead of time I was wondrting how yo upull your samples. as I was in the Air Force and was a Crew Chief of a B-52H Bomber. I know when we took oil samples we had to go through the oil cap with a tub and go all the way down then bring it half way up. so we could get an accurate reading. I was told draining out the bottom was a no no unless yo ulet the oil set for about an hour I think. been a few years sence I done it. so my question is how do yo uall take your samples. also does it make any difference if the oil is warm or cold? I know by sending it in it will be cold. I am just wondering if it makes a difference or not.

 

[sky jumper]

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Originally posted by Dark Jedi: first off sorry if I posted this in the wrong section. dont know where to post it. so sorry ahead of time I was wondrting how yo upull your samples. as I was in the Air Force and was a Crew Chief of a B-52H Bomber. I know when we took oil samples we had to go through the oil cap with a tub and go all the way down then bring it half way up. so we could get an accurate reading. I was told draining out the bottom was a no no unless yo ulet the oil set for about an hour I think. been a few years sence I done it. so my question is how do yo uall take your samples. also does it make any difference if the oil is warm or cold? I know by sending it in it will be cold. I am just wondering if it makes a difference or not.

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other experts in this forum feel free to chime in.... you want the oil hot, so all the contaminents are mixed up in the oil as opposed to settled at the bottom of the sump. this is representative of the oil as it is actually flowing through your engine while running. there are two methods of collection. one is to take a sample while draining the oil. the other is to pump some out of the dipstick tube. there is some debate as to which is more accuate (e.g. drain hole/sump contamination vs. dipstick tube contamination). Also, the diptick pump method is quicker and you can take a sample without draining the oil. I prefer dipstick pump method. you can get the pump from Blackstone labs. I measure out a length on the pump tube equal to the length of the dipstick, and insert that length in the dipstick tube - that way you know you're not hitting any internal parts and picking up contamination. I also take two samples (discard the first and keep the second) just to clear out any contamination that might be in the pump tube.

 

[Winston]

The benefit of getting the sample when you are draining is that you won't accidentally stir up any crud that is on the bottom of the pan. When collecting the sample, have the oil warm, let the first bit go into your pan, then collect the sample, then let the rest go into the pan. OTOH, it seems kind of silly to sample your oil when you drain it. Part of the reason of getting the sample is to determine whether the oil is good enough to stay in longer. I wish Blackstone had the disposable "bellows" samplers like they have at www.youroil.net. Yes, I asked, they do not plan on stocking them.

 

[ekpolk]

I use Blackstone's pump. It's inexpensive and very easy to use. My engines are clean, and I sample shortly after shutting down, so I'm not worried at all about picking up anything from the bottom of the pan. Also, I fill the bottle a couple times and discard those pulls before taking the "keeper". I theorize that this will minimize any contamination that gets on the end of the tube as I thread it into the engine. So far, my data has indicated very clean oil, so I don't think I'm getting any contamination. I agree with Winston concerning the fundamental problem with sampling from a drain -- that oil is then gone. I just took a sample of the GC in my G35. It's been in for 6,500 miles, and I'm trying to guage my OCI limits. Unless the results are over-the-top strong, I'll probably stick with 7,500 miles while in warranty. I still want to see that the trend is, if any, so that when it's time, I can set a realistic OCI, whatever that may be. Once past wty, I can envision taking a sample at about the same time, around 7k miles, and then deciding based upon the info gained, whether to dump at once, or press on to some other mileage. Oh yeah, one more thing: I understand that with some engines it's very difficult to get the sampling tubine down into the engine. I think some 'vettes have this problem. Don't know if any other cars do. Should not be a problem for most, though.

 

[Robbie Alexander]

At the drain time, in mid stream. or Have a check Valve where you can tap into the oil from the oil sending unit as in a bypass filter setup. or From the dipstick tube with a handpump, looks like a basketball pump but pulls air and not pushes it, into a bottle.

 

[Dark Jedi]

thanks for the info. I feel so dumb. never thought about the dip stick now I feel like one lol. I may do one on my dakota just to see whats going on in there. it only has 34K miles on it. so might not need it to soon. as the vehicle rund great on sencond OC of M1 5w-30, pure 1 filter (like the M-1 Filter better. dont know why but do lol) besides a low idle that dodge should be fixing soon (I hope) we all know how dealerships are

 

[Tim]

Turn off fully warmed engine. Remove rubber cover from drain nipple on Fumoto valve. Open Fumoto and drain two ounces used oil into waste oil container, then fill sample bottle. Close Fumoto valve. Dump contents of sample bottle into waste oil container. Open Fumoto valve and fill sample bottle for second time. Close Fumoto valve. Secure sample bottle. Top off oil. Send in sample and keep driving on (mostly) the same oil until results are in. Then decide if you want to drain or not. I only lose about 3% of my oil doing this, but I have an 8 quart system. Tim

 

[ekpolk]

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Originally posted by Dark Jedi: thanks for the info. I feel so dumb. never thought about the dip stick now I feel like one lol. I may do one on my dakota just to see whats going on in there. it only has 34K miles on it. so might not need it to soon. as the vehicle rund great on sencond OC of M1 5w-30, pure 1 filter (like the M-1 Filter better. dont know why but do lol) besides a low idle that dodge should be fixing soon (I hope) we all know how dealerships are

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No real right or wrong here, but I think that 34k miles is an ideal time to do a UOA. The engine should be pretty well settled in and stable by now. Although the chances are low, if it does have some lingering "health problem" that has not yet shown itself, you may catch it while still within wty mileage. Assuming no issues, you'll be able to move forward knowing that you have a sound engine versus merely assuming you do since most new-ish engines are OK. BTW -- amazing that oil sampling was such a PITA on the BUFF. I flew EA-6Bs in the Marines for eight years and I recall our ground crews just using some device that conveniently sucked out a sample. Of course, you could reach our engines (all of them) while standing on the ground, and there were six fewer of them per jet than you had to deal with.

 

[Palut]

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Originally posted by Dark Jedi: thanks for the info. I feel so dumb. never thought about the dip stick now I feel like one lol. I may do one on my dakota just to see whats going on in there. it only has 34K miles on it. so might not need it to soon. as the vehicle rund great on sencond OC of M1 5w-30, pure 1 filter (like the M-1 Filter better. dont know why but do lol) besides a low idle that dodge should be fixing soon (I hope) we all know how dealerships are

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This is about the perfect time. If you're still in warranty and the UOA turns up a coolant leak, you can get it fixed under warranty. If you do the UOA later, you're on your own. We analyzed my dad's '04 Accord at 35k miles for just that reason.

 

[Dark Jedi]

quote:

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Originally posted by ekpolk:

quote:

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Originally posted by Dark Jedi: thanks for the info. I feel so dumb. never thought about the dip stick now I feel like one lol. I may do one on my dakota just to see whats going on in there. it only has 34K miles on it. so might not need it to soon. as the vehicle rund great on sencond OC of M1 5w-30, pure 1 filter (like the M-1 Filter better. dont know why but do lol) besides a low idle that dodge should be fixing soon (I hope) we all know how dealerships are

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No real right or wrong here, but I think that 34k miles is an ideal time to do a UOA. The engine should be pretty well settled in and stable by now. Although the chances are low, if it does have some lingering "health problem" that has not yet shown itself, you may catch it while still within wty mileage. Assuming no issues, you'll be able to move forward knowing that you have a sound engine versus merely assuming you do since most new-ish engines are OK. BTW -- amazing that oil sampling was such a PITA on the BUFF. I flew EA-6Bs in the Marines for eight years and I recall our ground crews just using some device that conveniently sucked out a sample. Of course, you could reach our engines (all of them) while standing on the ground, and there were six fewer of them per jet than you had to deal with.

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well it could suck but during the winters of new york. we fought over who pulled the samples. because when you start pulling it you hug that engine cowling like it was your girl. kept ya nice and warm in -40 I think I will get a oil sample done. only prob is I just changed the oil 2 weeks ago. does it matter how many miles is on the oil? I guess everyone uses blackstone for their oil samples

 

[ekpolk]

There are a bunch of other labs out there too, although I've been pleased with what I get from Blackstone. I'd also recommend getting the "Dyson package" if you use Blackstone. Blackstone's summaries tend to be a bit cryptic and conclusory. They're not bad at all, but for a few extra bucks, Terry will send you a report that takes you down the list of things found, tell you what they mean, how they interact, and most importantly, how to make things better. See Dysonanalysis.com. And no, I don't have any stock or other connection to his business, I'm just a satisfied customer. EDIT: Oh yeah, I think you need to get a few thousand k miles on there (or months, depending upon which is your limiting factor) before a UOA will tell you a lot. If you're right up at wty mileage, go ahead and test anyway just to see. Be aware that your results will be somewhat skewed because of short miles, but here you goal is malfunction detection anyway, not trend development. [ October 21, 2005, 07:00 AM: Message edited by: ekpolk ]