Oil Additives for Lubrication vs Sludge

[Carlostrece]

I have heard that having more good additives for lubrication can result in increased sludge. I have heard that said of oils that have more ZDDP and/or more moly. Do you think this is true or just an incorrect urban legend?

Valvoline Extreme Protection Full Syn is an example of an oil with excellent additives for improved lubrication. Likewise with NAPA Full Syn (which I think is the same oil in a NAPA bottle). The increased level of additives (including moly) is known to improve lubrication, but does it also increase sludge or deposits?

With that in mind, what (if any) are the downsides of having high levels of additives?

I'm aware of cat issues with increased ZDDP. Does that also apply to increased levels of moly? How about sparkplug and valve cleanliness for port injection engines?

 

[Plumb Bob]

I have heard that having more good additives for lubrication can result in increased sludge. I have heard that said of oils that have more ZDDP and/or more moly. Do you think this is true or just an incorrect urban legend?

Valvoline Extreme Protection Full Syn is an example of an oil with excellent additives for improved lubrication. Likewise with NAPA Full Syn (which I think is the same oil in a NAPA bottle). The increased level of additives (including moly) is known to improve lubrication, but does it also increase sludge?

Does that

Source?

 

[Carlostrece]

Source?

Various videos online, maybe including Lake Speed, though I don't recall for sure if he said it. I may also have read it a time or two at BITOG in the past.

My questions about this topic have been building up for months, but this is the first time I ever expressed those questions.

BTW - you replied before I edited my OP to contain all my questions on the topic. So you might want to give the OP a second read. Thanks

 

[kschachn]

Please research some of these voices okay? So far it’s a lot of nothing. It’s the phosphorus in the ZDDP which can poison the catalyst, therefore a molybdenum compound will not unless it contains phosphorus. And, this only happens when a relatively large amount gets there - like burning a quart in 500 miles or less.

 

[Carlostrece]

Please research some of these voices okay? So far it’s a lot of nothing. It’s the phosphorus in the ZDDP which can poison the catalyst, therefore a molybdenum compound will not unless it contains phosphorus. And, this only happens when a relatively large amount gets there - like burning a quart in 500 miles or less.

I am researching the topic by posting this thread. Thanks for explaining about phosphorus and the cat. How does increased ZDDP and/or moly affect sludge and/or deposits in a port injection engine?

 

[kschachn]

I am researching the topic by posting this thread. Thanks for explaining about phosphorus and the cat. How does increased ZDDP and/or moly affect sludge and/or deposits in a port injection engine?

Same as if it’s a starboard injection engine.

 

[Plumb Bob]

Various videos online, maybe including Lake Speed, though I don't recall for sure if he said it. I may also have read it a time or two at BITOG in the past.

My questions about this topic have been building up for months, but this is the first time I ever expressed those questions.

BTW - you replied before I edited my OP to contain all my questions on the topic. So you might want to give the OP a second read. Thanks

Still curious. Never heard of that.

 

[kschachn]

Still curious. Never heard of that.

Links would help.

 

[JRay’07]

Multifunctional additives.

 

[RDY4WAR]

ZDDP has a secondary role as an anti-oxidant. If anything, it helps prevent sludge. Likewise, MoDTC is also an anti-oxidant.

If you have a healthy engine, the amount of phosphorus is largely irrelevant to emissions system damage. An oil with 600 ppm P consumed 1 qt / 1k miles is putting the same amount of phosphorus in the cat(s) as an oil with 1200 ppm P consumed at 1 qt / 2k miles. I personally believe if you're burning enough of a 1200 ppm P oil to damage the cats, you already have bigger problems to worry about.

 

[Wireman1987]

I’ve read about too much molybdenum could be a problem but what’s blended into an additive pack wouldn’t be a concern. I would steer clear of additives motor oil alone is good enough these days.

 

[kschachn]

I’ve read about too much molybdenum could be a problem but what’s blended into an additive pack wouldn’t be a concern. I would steer clear of additives motor oil alone is good enough these days.

Molybdenum will poison the catalyst as well?

 

[STMech]

The OP stated that “more good additives “ cause sludge….

 

[STMech]

So, what are these additives? How do oil additives cause sludge? Where did you “read” this?

What credibility can you bring to this statement.

What is a good additive vs a more good additive?

 

[Glenda W.]

In my experience sludge is caused by contaminants falling out of suspension in the oil. Common causes were excessive oci length and short trips not allowing the oil to get to full operating temperature.

 

[MolaKule]

See this link for what defines sludge:

Post in thread 'How is sludge formed?'

Oct 20, 2013

Quote:
A. Black Sludge is defined as thick to solid material with low water content, of dark color, light oil insolubles,
and typically found in rocker cover, cylinder head, timing chain cover, oil sump, oil pump screen, and oil rings in variable quantities.

B. Cause of Black Sludge in more modern engines.
1. Promoted by mixed driving conditions in which there is stop and go and highway operations.
2. Starts with Nitrous oxides in Lean-Burn engines reacting with blow-by gasses.
3. High spark advance, high temperature of combustion, lean fuel/air ratios, high compression.
4. Fouled air...

• MolaKule

 

[FlyingTexan]

Links would help.

When we ask you for the same you throw a fit

 

[Carlostrece]

Molybdenum will poison the catalyst as well?

I asked about sludge, deposits, and cat. Those are 3 separate questions/issues. He didn't say which of the 3 he was referring to. I didn't automatically assume he meant the cat. Why did you assume he meant the cat?

 

[Carlostrece]

The OP stated that “more good additives “ cause sludge….

No, I did not. You misquoted me and you misunderstood the OP context and intent.

I stated that I've heard that more (of some) additives can cause more sludge. I did not state that it's true or a fact.

I then asked questions about it.

 

[Carlostrece]

So, what are these additives?

I said in OP that ZDDP and/or moly are the additives I was asking about.

How do oil additives cause sludge?

I don't know if they do. I didn't state that they do. I asked if they do.

What credibility can you bring to this statement.

Do you understand the difference between a question and a statement? The purpose of the OP was to ask questions.

What is a good additive vs a more good additive?

I don't know what you're talking about. Neither do you. Please reread the OP and comprehend that I was asking, not telling or stating.

You are the most aggressive newbie I've ever seen with all of 33 posts under your belt.