I am an engineer for an oilfield service company. I spent last week in the U.K. (Scotland) on a business trip. While there I asked my U.K. associates (also engineers) about oil and oil change interval practices there. I was told that most people change there oil every 10,000 miles or once a year. (Note I said miles not kilometers - the U.K. still uses miles for distance measurement.) As for the type of oil I have a photo of the oil section in the Aberdeen Asda (Walmart is the parent company of Asda). The selection was nothing compared to what I see in a typical Walmart here in the States. I did not see any synthetic on the shelf. The Castrol Magnatec was 10w40. Most of the oil on the shelf was 15w40. I should mention that one must keep in mind the climate in Scotland would be equivalent to that of Northern Canada. I would post the picture if I could figure out how to insert it. (To post the photo by url it would have to be located somewhere on the 'net - not my hard drive. Help me out guys - that is if you want to see the photo.... and you know you do!)
Oil abd OCI in the U.K.
- Thread starter houmaite
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Houmaite, most of what you say is pretty close of the mark - but I believe Scotland is much warmer than northern Canada, I sure it must be much wetter too. For most of the year, it rains pretty much every day.
I'm from England and after reading some of the threads on this website, i'm really shocked!! There seem to be some people who change their oil every 1500-3000 miles!!!
Sorry, but that's just a waste of time and resources!!
Nobody in England has changed their oil that often since the sixties. I'd say the typical oil change interval was double that 30 years ago.
Current european cars, even ones with engines using quite old technology recommend changing the oil every 20,000 miles from new i.e. first change after this mileage. Some go even longer than this.
Other things to keep in mind are that pretty much nobody uses synthetic 4-stroke oil here. To be honest, it's not that easy to find it. Also, our cars have much smaller engines, often with higher specific power outputs, which surely must put more strain on the oil. 1000cc cars are not uncommon here. I'm not sure how fast you guys drive, but here on the motorway (highway), where the limit is 70 mph, the average speed is probably 80-90+ mph.
Why do you change your oil so much?
With all of the 'abuse' us Brits dish out on our engines, failure nowadays is very seldom and is almost always attributed to something else, i.e. cambelt, overheat or other catastrophic failure.
Engines just don't wear out before the rest of the car.
It should be noted that we don't have anything comparable to your 'jiffylube'. Maybe they are behind these short intervals?
I'm from England and after reading some of the threads on this website, i'm really shocked!! There seem to be some people who change their oil every 1500-3000 miles!!!
Sorry, but that's just a waste of time and resources!!
Nobody in England has changed their oil that often since the sixties. I'd say the typical oil change interval was double that 30 years ago.
Current european cars, even ones with engines using quite old technology recommend changing the oil every 20,000 miles from new i.e. first change after this mileage. Some go even longer than this.
Other things to keep in mind are that pretty much nobody uses synthetic 4-stroke oil here. To be honest, it's not that easy to find it. Also, our cars have much smaller engines, often with higher specific power outputs, which surely must put more strain on the oil. 1000cc cars are not uncommon here. I'm not sure how fast you guys drive, but here on the motorway (highway), where the limit is 70 mph, the average speed is probably 80-90+ mph.
Why do you change your oil so much?
With all of the 'abuse' us Brits dish out on our engines, failure nowadays is very seldom and is almost always attributed to something else, i.e. cambelt, overheat or other catastrophic failure.
Engines just don't wear out before the rest of the car.
It should be noted that we don't have anything comparable to your 'jiffylube'. Maybe they are behind these short intervals?
^I have to agree, I think people jump the gun on changing the oil to soon. I just follow the OLM so I don't really have to count or anything on it. What is the size of the average sump over there? I know my 98 devilles 7.5qt sump certainly could let me go longer than those with smaller ones, more oil to make dirty and wear out 
Thats the main thing, dirty oil right, they rarely break down past the point of lubrication.
Thats the main thing, dirty oil right, they rarely break down past the point of lubrication.Your statments are very interesting. I certainly believe we can go 10,000 miles with no problem. I have just started going 10,000 miles on one car and 15,000 on another. UOA's show excellent results and no problems. I have settled on 40 weight oils also as I see better long term results with the 40 weights. Interesting that this is what they also tend to use in the UK. However I do use synthetic oils. I am not sure the UK gets the same quality in regular oil that we get. My guess is they get a better quality oil. It would be difficult to go 10,000 on some of the oils we get at the Walmart.
IMHO UK has relatively less stringent emissions control than most indusrialised country that I know of: PCV system, CAT, etc. and leaded petrol didn't officially phased out until around 1997!!!
Because of these, engines are relatively easy on the motor oil. Of course, you also cannot differentiate between a regular diesel "smoker" and a petrol car that is slightly burning motor oil (LOL! I added this line myself).
bottomline: IMHO you don't wanna push your OCI with mineral oil past 10,000miles (British miles) for there were quite a few sludging/carbon coking issues happened in the past.
Also: most motorists don't seem to mind when they saw sludge/carbon coking inside their engines (YMMV).
My 2c's worth.YMMV
Because of these, engines are relatively easy on the motor oil. Of course, you also cannot differentiate between a regular diesel "smoker" and a petrol car that is slightly burning motor oil (LOL! I added this line myself).
bottomline: IMHO you don't wanna push your OCI with mineral oil past 10,000miles (British miles) for there were quite a few sludging/carbon coking issues happened in the past.
Also: most motorists don't seem to mind when they saw sludge/carbon coking inside their engines (YMMV).
My 2c's worth.YMMV
Oil change advice in UK
After the first year or 10,000 miles, whichever comes first, I recommend using either a good semi-synthetic oil such as Texaco Havoline 5w30 (Ford dealer 'bulk' oil), or a fully-synthetic such as Mobil 1, and changing it every 5,000 miles or every six months, whichever comes first. If you are a higher-mileage driver doing 15,000 miles a year or more, consider stretching your oil changes to 6,000 miles. If you do 25,000 miles or more and use fully-synthetic oil, consider stretching to 7,500 miles but no further.
http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/faq/faq.htm?id=13
Plenty of synths available
http://www.opieoils.co.uk/performance_lubricants/
Supermarkets in UK tend to sell a small range of cheap mineral oils. Better oil choices are available at Halfords or petrol stations. Plenty of other choices avalaible from companies such as Millers or Rock.
After the first year or 10,000 miles, whichever comes first, I recommend using either a good semi-synthetic oil such as Texaco Havoline 5w30 (Ford dealer 'bulk' oil), or a fully-synthetic such as Mobil 1, and changing it every 5,000 miles or every six months, whichever comes first. If you are a higher-mileage driver doing 15,000 miles a year or more, consider stretching your oil changes to 6,000 miles. If you do 25,000 miles or more and use fully-synthetic oil, consider stretching to 7,500 miles but no further.
http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/faq/faq.htm?id=13
Plenty of synths available
http://www.opieoils.co.uk/performance_lubricants/
Supermarkets in UK tend to sell a small range of cheap mineral oils. Better oil choices are available at Halfords or petrol stations. Plenty of other choices avalaible from companies such as Millers or Rock.
MGBV8roadster - 'Honest'John appears to be a journalist, and as such is probably not the best person to be taking this sort of advice from. His advice will have been designed to be completely safe so he has no chance of getting himself in trouble. He definitely does not represent the typical British motorist. I think what houmaite has been told is more like the truth, would you agree?
Yes, synthetics are available if you look for them, not many people do though. They aren't really marketed at all or differentiated from conventional oils. They are available in Halfords (own brand) and other car shops (minor brands), but aside from mobil one, the major brands aren't really represented when it comes to synthetic oil - there just isn't the market. You rarely see synthetic oil in supermarkets or petrol station for example. I've no evidence, but at a guess, I would say synthetics represent less than 1% of the market.
Quest - maybe that's the answer. Why are these systems hard on oil? I'm not familiar with them.
I must admit, I think 20,000 miles is a bit much. A lot of this is probably down to marketing i.e. our car needs servicing less than another maker's etc. I think 10,000 is completely safe though.
Yes, synthetics are available if you look for them, not many people do though. They aren't really marketed at all or differentiated from conventional oils. They are available in Halfords (own brand) and other car shops (minor brands), but aside from mobil one, the major brands aren't really represented when it comes to synthetic oil - there just isn't the market. You rarely see synthetic oil in supermarkets or petrol station for example. I've no evidence, but at a guess, I would say synthetics represent less than 1% of the market.
Quest - maybe that's the answer. Why are these systems hard on oil? I'm not familiar with them.
I must admit, I think 20,000 miles is a bit much. A lot of this is probably down to marketing i.e. our car needs servicing less than another maker's etc. I think 10,000 is completely safe though.
Before I left the UK 2 years ago to live in Australia I had a Ford Fusion with a 1.4 litre diesel engine - 12500 mile or 1 year oci on Motocraft 5w30 which I think was semi-synthetic. Also had a BMW 3 series with oil monitor and this worked out at annual or approx 10000 mile oil changes on mineral oil. I have 2 Toyotas now which require 6 month or 10000 kms, approx 6k miles, oci. The conditions here in Australia are much easier on engines and engine oil, no rain, no snow, hardly any cold starts, not as much traffic, long freeway journeys and yet the service intervals are half that of UK. Funny old world.
Roger
Roger
The UK has a much more mild climate than Canada or the US.
Canada and a lot of the US has about the same climate as Siberia in the Winter months.
http://www.ssd.noaa.gov/PS/SNOW/ARCHIVE/NHem/ims2007016.gif
Canada and a lot of the US has about the same climate as Siberia in the Winter months.
http://www.ssd.noaa.gov/PS/SNOW/ARCHIVE/NHem/ims2007016.gif
Does Scotland or the UK have discount autoparts stores. Check for synthetic there. In the US these stores have more variety than wallmart.
Extended intervals are common with 15w40 in deisel trucks but this grade is not recommended for passenger cars.
Extended intervals are common with 15w40 in deisel trucks but this grade is not recommended for passenger cars.
Questioning the balance of factors upon OCI's, some already mentioned:
-Oil quality
-fuel quality
-power density (thermal loading)
-n/a engines or other...relating to above
-stabilized temps.
-average distance/time of use
-average load situations (hill climbs, level)
-average degree of temp swings (condensation potential during non-use)
-emissions controls (egr, pvc designs)
-general state of tune
-quality design complimenting actual conditions of use
-useable life expectancy
I do wonder though, as for the low wear numbers that many here set off alarms, perhaps as caring for the state of afairs with one's engine/transmission, that relative to what some have mentioned as allowances till action is seen in the industry as neccessary, that 10k OCI's just might be ok. However, the concern for sludge may appear to be with engine designs and consequential cool zones in the engine, questioning of comparable oil and fuel quality, impact of emission systems and average conditions/duration of use, users in the US seem to settle back upon OCI's at or above the 3m/3k marketted "standard". Of course, there are those that follow the manufacturer recommendations as well which appear to be lower in the US than abroad, for reasons still unclear. Sometimes even the manufacturers may underestimate conditions so it seems (dodge, toyota, bmw,...), for one or so engine members, but not all together discounting liability of the users as I don't honestly know the facts.
More questions than answers, but at least we have an idea of what we are looking for.
-Oil quality
-fuel quality
-power density (thermal loading)
-n/a engines or other...relating to above
-stabilized temps.
-average distance/time of use
-average load situations (hill climbs, level)
-average degree of temp swings (condensation potential during non-use)
-emissions controls (egr, pvc designs)
-general state of tune
-quality design complimenting actual conditions of use
-useable life expectancy
I do wonder though, as for the low wear numbers that many here set off alarms, perhaps as caring for the state of afairs with one's engine/transmission, that relative to what some have mentioned as allowances till action is seen in the industry as neccessary, that 10k OCI's just might be ok. However, the concern for sludge may appear to be with engine designs and consequential cool zones in the engine, questioning of comparable oil and fuel quality, impact of emission systems and average conditions/duration of use, users in the US seem to settle back upon OCI's at or above the 3m/3k marketted "standard". Of course, there are those that follow the manufacturer recommendations as well which appear to be lower in the US than abroad, for reasons still unclear. Sometimes even the manufacturers may underestimate conditions so it seems (dodge, toyota, bmw,...), for one or so engine members, but not all together discounting liability of the users as I don't honestly know the facts.
More questions than answers, but at least we have an idea of what we are looking for.
Sorry about the typo's guys and gals...
As for oil quality, it appears from the link given above, http://www.opieoils.co.uk/performance_lubricants/ , that there are more specific manufacturer qualifications than just the latest API cert. on average, but then again those are synthetics. Perhaps there's less market distinction, that is to say less sales on the basis of mineral or synth, than simply an oil that meets the manufacturer's specific requirements. Also, it appears that group 3 oils classify as a mineral rather than synth like it does here in the US, so that also might have something to do with eastern regions ability to fair well with "mineral" base lubricants with some distance of use.?.
Could manufacturers be less stringent in the US market in terms of lube quality also inpart do to the generalization that owners will follow shorter OCI's than even recommended by the manufacturer in severe cases, also which might enable the lubricant manufacturers to produce a product that's "good enough" based upon the averages? - coupled of course with equipment spec.s/operating conditions.
Again, more questions.
Has there been a comparison of like oils, only taken from different markets...say US vs. UK, minerals and synths.? Might be an interesting analysis to run, but would likely need to be on the level as done with GC.
Take care.
As for oil quality, it appears from the link given above, http://www.opieoils.co.uk/performance_lubricants/ , that there are more specific manufacturer qualifications than just the latest API cert. on average, but then again those are synthetics. Perhaps there's less market distinction, that is to say less sales on the basis of mineral or synth, than simply an oil that meets the manufacturer's specific requirements. Also, it appears that group 3 oils classify as a mineral rather than synth like it does here in the US, so that also might have something to do with eastern regions ability to fair well with "mineral" base lubricants with some distance of use.?.
Could manufacturers be less stringent in the US market in terms of lube quality also inpart do to the generalization that owners will follow shorter OCI's than even recommended by the manufacturer in severe cases, also which might enable the lubricant manufacturers to produce a product that's "good enough" based upon the averages? - coupled of course with equipment spec.s/operating conditions.
Again, more questions.
Has there been a comparison of like oils, only taken from different markets...say US vs. UK, minerals and synths.? Might be an interesting analysis to run, but would likely need to be on the level as done with GC.
Take care.
I'd question the higher cost of engine oil per liter/quart in the UK compared to U.S. prices as being a real big factor in extended OCIs in Europe vs. the U.S. I think a high cost of oil for an oil change here in the U.S. would make me re-consider much longer OCIs than I do now. If costs of $10 to $20 per 5 quart DIY oil changes suddenly went to $100 plus, I think my car maintenance schedule would have to change!
I'd also bet that many die hard 3K mile/3-months oil changers would re-consider their position.
I'd also bet that many die hard 3K mile/3-months oil changers would re-consider their position.
Discount autoparts stores are a good source for oil in UK, rather than Asda. Typical types of oil are from Comma
http://www.commaoil.com/
A guide for oil choice from Halfords which sell Mobil/Castrol/ Own Brand/ and Classic oils
http://www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/store..._38270_p2_31292
http://www.commaoil.com/
A guide for oil choice from Halfords which sell Mobil/Castrol/ Own Brand/ and Classic oils
http://www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/store..._38270_p2_31292
Just out of curiosity, I clicked on the Halford's oil guide. I've visited the UK before, but inspecting the motor oil was not on my list of things to see and do. I also don't remember Halfords, but I wasn't checking out the auto supply establishments. Albion has other attractions!
Scrolling down to the very bottom where mineral 15w40 is shown, the comment under "Benefits" says "Change of oil required more often -- remember to check it regularly."
First of all, for the average motorist, I wouldn't really consider that a benefit...unless you're a BITOG fanatic who just gets a perverse pleasure from checking the oil in your car.
Second, 15w40 oils here in the USA are often noteworthy for their abilities to go long distances without needing a change. It is the oil of choice in diesel trucks, and often used in older German cars.
Third, I'm not clear why this kind of oil would need to be checked more often than any other oil. If anything, I'd think it would be less likely to either leak or burn off.
Perhaps there is, indeed, a parallax view when it comes to oil across nations. The oil is the same. Immovable, like a huge boulder. It just looks different from the angle of your own national perspective. And no protestations from others will change that.
I second the comment that if the average oil change here in the USA was going to cost $100, or whatever the amount that Europeans pay to have this done, then there might be more than a few who backed off this 3 month / 3,000 mile regimen.
Scrolling down to the very bottom where mineral 15w40 is shown, the comment under "Benefits" says "Change of oil required more often -- remember to check it regularly."
First of all, for the average motorist, I wouldn't really consider that a benefit...unless you're a BITOG fanatic who just gets a perverse pleasure from checking the oil in your car.
Second, 15w40 oils here in the USA are often noteworthy for their abilities to go long distances without needing a change. It is the oil of choice in diesel trucks, and often used in older German cars.
Third, I'm not clear why this kind of oil would need to be checked more often than any other oil. If anything, I'd think it would be less likely to either leak or burn off.
Perhaps there is, indeed, a parallax view when it comes to oil across nations. The oil is the same. Immovable, like a huge boulder. It just looks different from the angle of your own national perspective. And no protestations from others will change that.
I second the comment that if the average oil change here in the USA was going to cost $100, or whatever the amount that Europeans pay to have this done, then there might be more than a few who backed off this 3 month / 3,000 mile regimen.
MGB,
I've been meaning to ask you. Have you built yourself a V-8 Tourer, since the factory never did, other than that tarted up RV8?
Anyway, if we are talking about time and mileage, how many miles does the typical Brit do in a year?
I am wondering if it is merely a case of the average owner doing an annual OC, at modest total mileage?
In the US, it is quite common to see five year old cars that have done 100K or more. I am wondering whether this is true in Britain as well?
I've been meaning to ask you. Have you built yourself a V-8 Tourer, since the factory never did, other than that tarted up RV8?
Anyway, if we are talking about time and mileage, how many miles does the typical Brit do in a year?
I am wondering if it is merely a case of the average owner doing an annual OC, at modest total mileage?
In the US, it is quite common to see five year old cars that have done 100K or more. I am wondering whether this is true in Britain as well?
Average mileage in UK was between 10 and 12k miles as I remember.
Roger
Roger
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